Originally posted by ROTLA ToD is not a BAD movie.
See, there's where you're wrong.
See, that's where YOU'RE wrong. I saw temple of doom before raiders, and it sucked me into indiana jones. It made Indy my favorite action hero and idol long before i had even SEEN raiders. So it's got somethin' goin' for it.
The one that belonged to the villiagers did just more than that. When Indy arrived the place was dead. There was nothing growing, no running clean water. Then when the stone was returned to the goodies the river ran again and the bushes grew again. i mean bushes don't grow in a day. That is some magical power that the stones possess. If they could do something like that on one level what could they do on another level, as they said once they had all five they could contain an awesome power.
The grail on the other hand, what did it do? ok, people drank it and got better which is good, and they had long health. But seriously what advntage would that give an army? Meh. Well the artifacts are usually self important to Indy as well as on a greater level. The Sankara stons were more than just stones that glowed. Anyone that says otherwise, just watch the film because its there.
Stone is gone = Villiage is dead
Stone is back = Villiage alive.
That's more than glowing my friend. Conversation over I win. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Originally posted by Indy Smith Apparantly all the Snkara Stones just glowed?
I think that was made a little ambigious in the film i always assumed it was the fact that there were gangs of cultists roaming the countryside. Indy doesnt seem to read much into it just calling them 'fortune and glory' and to be honest the apparent powers are soon forgotten it has taken about 30 posts for the people who have watched these films endlessly to actually mention it.
Ok so they are good luck charms as well this could have been done a lot better in the movie by explaining...
1. Why these villages NEED a Shankara Stone i mean there are millions of villages in the world why does this village need one?
2. Why are the Shankara Stones so important to the Cultists? (this was barely touched on)
The Stones are poorly explained in the movie, and at the end of the day they are just glowing rocks the script leaves them extremely undeveloped this was ok with the Ark which was pretty undeveloped also but its power was made far more tangible
"The children dig for diamonds to support our cause. They also dig for the remaining shankara stones. Once the stones are mine, the thuggee's will be all powerful..." (Something like that) - MOLA RAM
That's it. That's all we get. HOW? HOW THE HELL DO THE STONES MAKE YOU ALL-POWERFUL!?!?!?!?
Guys, I've already posted my opinions...I think I made it clear that temple of doom isn't a bad movie. I really don't know why people care so much about what is the importance of the stones, or the village or anything....all I said was my opinion, and if you want it, go take a look at my other posts if you bother. I'll make sure not to post here again cause it might turn out ugly, so good day.
Originally posted by wolfgang Guys, I've already posted my opinions...I think I made it clear that temple of doom isn't a bad movie. I really don't know why people care so much about what is the importance of the stones, or the village or anything....all I said was my opinion, and if you want it, go take a look at my other posts if you bother. I'll make sure not to post here again cause it might turn out ugly, so good day.
Wolfgang, my friend, I'm afraid you may have mistaken something. Perhaps a few people got a bit "Thuggish" in their defense of the film, but none of it was directed towards you. The only problem for them was that someone was suggesting that the film was less than perfect. I'd hate for us to lose another good Ravener just because one person smugly suggested that a conversation could be won and some others went around saying people (not you, you'll notice) we're wrong. Please, accept my explanation as an apology from those that might not be willing to offer one.
HAHAHA! I think you might have misunderstood. I wouldn't leave the raven for the world (or would I?) I was just leaving this thread because I already said what I wanted to say, and if people keep being "THugish" defending what they think about the film, it might turn into a fight, and I sure don't wanna be a part of it, so I've decided not to post in this thread anymore. ANyway, i know your heart is in the right place, so thank you...see you at another theme!
Originally posted by wolfgang HAHAHA! I think you might have misunderstood. I wouldn't leave the raven for the world (or would I?) I was just leaving this thread because I already said what I wanted to say, and if people keep being "THugish" defending what they think about the film, it might turn into a fight, and I sure don't wanna be a part of it, so I've decided not to post in this thread anymore. ANyway, i know your heart is in the right place, so thank you...see you at another theme!
Did I suggest you were leaving the Raven? Oh, so I did. Well, it was a grievous error. Sometimes I get overly zealous trying to smooth over disputes. Come on, buy you a drink...you know, a drink?
its darker and more scarier, its more violent, it doesn't have nazis, it doesn't have sean connery, it has a guy who pulls peoples hearts out, it has shorty and it has heaps more action plus its more adventerous.
I reckon the last crusade is the worst. if it wasn't for that one, indiana jones wouldn't have been labelled a family movie.
Originally posted by Scaramanga tod is easily better than the other 2.
its darker and more scarier
Darker? DARKER? The average episode of Power Rangers is darker than TOD, Willy Wonka is darker, The Muppets Take Manhattan was darker, Pee Wee's Big Adventure was darker. Mindless violence doesn't make a movie dark, it just makes it mindless.
Maybe, MAYBE that movie could have been saved if they got rid of Willie "IF Jar Jar could scream" Scott and Short "If Jar Jar was 4 feet tall" Round.
Indiana Jones is a great hero. I would never criticise Indy! The only reason I criticize the likes of Willie and Short Round is that they detract from what makes Indy great!
Originally posted by spohlso Indiana Jones is a great hero. I would never criticise Indy! The only reason I criticize the likes of Willie and Short Round is that they detract from what makes Indy great!
I think you're a little hard on the movie, spohlso, but I agree... not liking Short Round and Willie has nothing to do with not liking Indy. I think almost everyone can agree that Temple of Doom would be better without Willie (or at least with less Willie), and calling her the "Jar-Jar of ToD" is hardly an exaggeration. I thought Shorty was kinda cute myself, though.
Though the movie had things in it that weren't culturally accurate which was done on purpose was to create an ultimate villian. This bothered me a tiny bit but now it doesn't. Yeah they could have Short Round or someone died but Shorty's too cool. It would bring some more drama to it but just like how Harrison Ford said to GL to have Hans Solo died, It can't really happen since the genre it's in and critics would criticize about how the movie was more violent. Willie was annoying but that was the character. I thought she was going to die but she didn't. I think the violence in the film was way overrated since you can watch 18+ T.V. shows at 6pm on regular channels and That Raiders of the Lost Ark was more violent ( In Canada it's 14A) and ToD was PG. I don't know what was up with that. Probably the "screaming" was considered violent since you don't pay attention to the scream when you are little. As for mindless fighting I just think there was more fighting in it but wasn't exactly "mindless" It's just that since there is more of the same fighting that you don't pay attention to what's happening. If you're still calling it mindless than you might as well call any action scene mindless.
I think its mindless, but its fun mindless action adventure violence, yeah, thats it.
Wheres the darkness, well how about I show you: Bloodied fingers with voodoo music in tune, cutting the snake's belly with slimey eels[?] dropping out, the beatles, well actually, the whole banquet sequence is an dark sequence, especially for children. Then the heart ripping, the beating of children, an villian squashed with bloody result(and these are not moronic Nazis who we can laugh at, its somewhat disturbing if you see it for the first time), and of course the drinking of blood. This makes for great family entertainment!
I think me, and an select few are unique on this forum, those who can suspend disbelief for the sake of entertainment and those who can't.
Im going to have to ask an question here: Out of all the Indy films, which one do you think you watched the most?
I guess I just have a different idea of what is 'dark.' To me, something needs to be sinister, not just grotesque to be 'dark.' I think "Who's afraid of Virginia Wolfe" is a VERY 'dark' movie, although there is not a moment of violence in it. But I digress...
To be honest, I have seen Raiders well into the triple digits. I can quote every single line, I know every musical cue, and I can even (phoenetically at least) quote all of the lines that aren't in English as well. (It always sounds to me like Belloq holds up the fertility idol and shouts, "Hokanna Matusu... HOBATTA!" (followed by "shwwwt shwwwt!" at the beginning. I would be hard pressed to think of a better movie than ROTLA. It will probably always be my favorite movie (period, not just my favorite Indy movie.)
I've seen ToD probably the most times. I just saw it my first time 3 months ago since I Borrowed the tapes from my uncle's and I only vistied him twice the year he got them and now I've seen it probably 30 times. I'm not kidding at all. LC probably 20 and Raiders 17.
I've probably seen ToD the most. since I borrowed the tapes 4 months ago I've probably seen it 30 times sine. LC coming in 2nd at 20 and Raiders actually might tie. I'm not kidding.
Location: At the front row of Indy's class at Barnett College - a girl can dream! recently moved from UK and now in Pennsylvania, USA!!!
Posts: 2,207
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Originally posted by spohlso The most ridiculous thing Indy did in Raiders was get dragged for a couple of minutes under a truck.
Sorry spohlso. I have to disagree with you there. Every time I see Raiders, I stare in awe at that part.
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy Smith The best thing about the ToD is that it is not a carbon copy of Raiders. It's giving the audience something different although it is relying on the same ideas somehow. Would you have preffered a carbon copy of Raiders in the same manner that The Mummy series tried to do?
I agree 100 percent with this comment. If they made another Raiders, it would have been critizised for not being 'original' enough.
Quote:
Originally posted by thegreatimposter I saw temple of doom before raiders, and it sucked me into indiana jones. It made Indy my favorite action hero and idol long before i had even SEEN raiders. So it's got somethin' goin' for it.
I'm always interested in hearing how other people became Indy's fans!
Location: At the front row of Indy's class at Barnett College - a girl can dream! recently moved from UK and now in Pennsylvania, USA!!!
Posts: 2,207
Raiders is my favourite, Crusade is personal to me, and Temple is a wonderful film!
Some time ago there was a thread entitled 'Which Indiana Jones film is your ALL time favourite?' and I mentioned a lot of stuff about Raiders and something about Last Crusade. Found here:http://www.theraider.net/theraven/sh...3&pagenumber=2
What I didn't mention was why I consider Temple of Doom to be a pretty good film, so I shall post my thoughts here.
Firstly, I think that you must put the film into the context of when it was brought out. Temple came out in 1984, and at the time there was an uproar about it. As quoted in my last post by Indy Smith, I can't help but think that a Raiders replica would have been a very bad idea. When you bring out a film like Raiders or Star Wars, you will always have the problem of trying to top it, which is an extremely difficult thing for people to do.
I think if the second Indy film had been a copy of Raiders or if it had been a film with more romance and less action, it would have come under fire, as Temple did. If it was a film with a lot more comedy and less action, it would have still been critisized. What I am trying to say is, it deosn't matter what the second film is like. It is like any sequel (or prequel in this case) some people will never be satisfied.
Personally, I think that Spielberg, Lucas and Ford were very brave to do what they did when they made this film. In some ways I can understand why Temple was critized as it gets a bit scary in some places. I recently got to see it on the big screen, and the parts where Indy, Short Round and Willie discover the sacrificial ceremony and when Mola Ram rips out the man's heart were quite bone chilling and also when Indy is forced to drink the blood of Kali can be quite scary to watch on the big screen.
Apart from that, in my opinion, Temple is a great film and has some fantasic parts in it. My favourite scenes are:
*Just before Indy shuts the airplane door "Haha nice try Lao Che!" and then the scene following where we see Indy for the first time in his gear (I understand that some audiences in the theatre cheered at this point! )
*The whole love scene between Indy and Willie (namely Indy striding around in his suite). I love the part where him and Willie are muttering away
Indy: "Palace Slave", followed by a laugh. *sigh*
*The spike room scene. Some great dialogue here:
Indy: "Just stand against the wall"
Shortie: "You said to stand against the wall. Not my fault! Not my fault!"
Willie: "Let me in"
Shortie: "Let us out!"
Another great part is the look on Indy's face when the door opens and I nearly die with laughter every time I see that! And then Willie inadvertantly starts the whole thing off again!
Shortie: "It wasn't me, it's her!" points to Willie
Willie: "Huh?" having not realised what she has just done.
Another one of my favourite scenes is the part, just after the ceremony, when Indy goes down into the cavern and heads toward the Sankara Stones. As Indy cautiously approaches the stones, he picks one up and he has the most wonderful look on his face.I love this whole scene, and John Williams' wonderful score really adds to it.
When Indy and Short Round are captured my heart sinks, and I really feel for the character when he is forced to drink the blood of Kali. But isn't that what makes Indy's such a great character in the first place? The fact that he is not a superhero but just a man. He occasionaly gets hurt, and this is very much shown in this part. Poor Indy...
From the moment when Short Round wakes Indy up with the fire, the film really explodes into action! I think it's great when Indy wakes up from the 'Black Sleep' and is followed by a great fight scene. I love it when Indy wakes Willie up and she slaps him across the face... wonderful!
The next scene is easly one of the best in the whole film. Indy puts Short Round's baseball cap on the boy's head, then Shortie hands Indy his Fedora and Indy pulls Shortie into a hug. Awww. I love that part. It's very father/son like! When Indy is stood at the end of the track, he gives the Thuggee's one helluva stare,which almost tells you that he's had enough and that he's going go kick some serious butt! The whole scene which follows is wonderful, when Indy is just about to be crushed in the roller and then he gives the scary Thuggee a look and then the Indy theme starts up, and you know that he's gona win! Well, of course he does. He's Indy!!! The whole mine cart scene is fantasic, especialy the end... "Water! water!" The scene on the bridge goes without saying. It's so Indyesque! Hey, and not forgetting the part before when Indy disarms the guard with the whip! Wow! How does he do it!
Phew, I think that just about covers everything! The end is great. I'm sorry guys, I know its slightly cliqued, but I love it all the same. Of course, I am envious when Willie gets to kiss the adorable Dr. Jones... *sigh*
