The Character of Indy

'allo

In Raiders we were presented with a rather engimatic underwritten character - that of Indiana Jones; the next two films peeled back the dark edge to his character and much of the mistique. What will Indy IV present Indy as?; will he be the cynical almost hired gun of Raiders, the man overwhelmed by events in ToD inspired to act by the horror of the thugees, or the light hearted hero dragging along his dad on a scared quest....

So how will the character of Indy be presented in Indy IV?
I feel that they may return to a man with a slightly dark edge as to be hones they cant esps without a side kick go back into the lightness of LC and 17 years would have passed between movies in real time and probably continuity what will have happened to this man?

I see him being a little more weary about things-- a man who's had enough, and who isn't quite so gung-ho (remember in Raiders how thrilled he was to have the opportunity to go after the Ark? And the thrill of fortune and glory in TOD? Well, I don't think that will be his attitude anymore.)

From what they have said I think we will see Indy in his
traditional role as far as personality goes. Though they may add something, what I donnot know, but if it has taken them this long to come up with the perfect script then one of the factor's in this is because they were adding a new element to his character. FAN

Well, I just want to seriously think about this, instead of bringing in my notions of "Indy noir."

Indy, realistically, will be somewhat worn-down. They'll probably have him making some sort of return, that seems traditional for this sort of thing (like Unforgiven).

Do you think that Indy will spel out any regret's he may have had about thing's he could hae done differant, perhap's they will fill differant event's that took place durring the war year's. Perhap's stuff he did or didn't do that know looking back he regret's. What do you think? FAN

I see the themes of "Regret" and "Remorse" as servants to Indy's character. I find it hard that as a man he could look back on his life and see value in his actions. I mean what really does Indy have to show for himself, cinematically?

He found (and preserved) the Cross of Coronado. He reestablished a relationship with his father. We can argue what happened to the Ark, but it is still "Lost" in my opinion, and in Indy's too.

I think this will make him a depressed man, not bitter or angry, just depressed. As Belloq said it would only take a nudge to make Indy like himself. It would be nice to see that, but we probably won't. And I have to agree with Attila that we won't see a nudge that makes him 'hard-boiled'.

This goes back to the fact that he needs to be redeemed. This strays a little from the idea presented in "Unforgiven," because in Clint Eastwood's movie, William Mundy was redeemed after his wrong doings (married and settled down) and was forced to revisit his past.

Indy is a good guy at heart, we all know that. But he is very unscrupulous. Because he chose not to stay in the middle of the light, and played on the fringes of darkness, his life has been full of frustrated accomplishments. (This is one reason I don't look to the YIC for character)

Darabont is writing the screenplay. When I think about that I think of "Shawshank, Green Mile, Majestic"; movies where the main character is redemmed from his past. That is why he was chosen over the other men we heard rumours about. We will see Indy's frustrated characted redeemed, (or presented with redemption) for a lifes work of failures. It is the only way to improve on LC.

What i probably find most interesting from a fan of the deeper side of Indy (as opposed to the action school); in Riaders Indy did not have much of a personality that made him distinguishable from other pulp heros admittedly he came down to earth in ToD and LC but i dont think we have seen the nuts and bolts of the character yet...

In Indy IV we are faced with a man who is a relic from a bygone age, who no longer has a role and is no longer the hero of that age (yes i know this goes beyond the film but bare with me)
As for the man himself he is probably looking to retire/settle down in someway (if he hasnt already); but he will have to come to terms with the fact that it is no longer his world and he is past his prime in many ways. He is probably quite a sad man to see that all he has done has achived very little and the Soviets have simply displaced the Nazis and the US Government hangs onto the supernatural artifacts that he does make back. His best friend (Marcus) is dead, Henry is probably a dead man walking (in my opinion), Indy is still very much single and Indy (now this is just a guess) could even have problems with alcohol.

Now in ToD and LC Indy is basicly dragged into adventure, it is hard to see what will do so this time and it will make it far more interesting.

Also remember that assuming this movie is set in 1955 that is 17 years since LC, 17 years before LC was in YIJ territory and look at the changes that happened to the character in those 17 years i think that we should expect something similar.

(Alternately of course he could have become a born again Christian after seeing the miracle of the Grail and is living in a Monastry for last 17 years but that is far less fun)

Do you think he may actualy end the film by doing somethig right and getting married? That's a grusume thought for Indy but everything else we have been talking about has been depressing. FAN

Well, interesting thought FAN, I've never really considered the whole marriage thing as a way for Indy to redeem himself. I know that's not quite what you're saying, but the idea popped into my mind from your post.

Which presents a question...if Indy is something bob, monkey, apalehorse, myself, and a couple of others are suggesting, can he redeem himself, and how?

Of course, in LC, there was a slight measure of redemption (the Grail represents that, in a way - plus the whole thing with Henry Sr.), but I'm sure he could use some more (redemption, that is).

But can he redeem himself? I'm sure he can, he hasn't done that much bad, but I suppose, from his perspective, he hasn't done that much good either. What can he do? Anything? Nothing? And if anything, what?

I don't think Indy can redeem himself, he has to be redeemed by something else, he has to be found in a sense. It is the search for Indy in us all that may drive this movie.

apalehorse said:

I don't think Indy can redeem himself, he has to be redeemed by something else, he has to be found in a sense. It is the search for Indy in us all that may drive this movie.

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"The search for the driving theme of Indy IV is the search for the Indiana Jones in all of us."

Interesting thought, and I suppose you're right...what else can he do, after all...save the world again...nah.

Something, or someone else needs to save him...sounds incredibly like a kid, protege, religion or something...there must be something better...

Yeah, we already know that he has to go it alone. But that doesn't mean he can't "follow in his fathers footsteps" so to speak.

To begin with, maybe he moves a little slower,is a little more cynical. But let's talk straight. Indy's immortal, Harrison's not. I, for one, would not wish to see anyone
else under that august fedora. Ergo, let Indy rise from those aforementioned geriatric ashes and let the "redemption" be a return to his pseudo-scoundrel self. Let the half-grin spread across his face as the Adventure Movie Icon finally gallops off into history and the credits role. In my mind, that's the only fitting end to the mythos.

Cain, waxing poetic. Beautiful.

I just heard this from a very reliable source:

Indy will be a changed man in Indy 4. He has become far more liberal and is now very opposed to guns and violence. Instead of trotting around the world having great adventures, he will be working at a youth club for troubled inner-city children. One of the kids gets involved with some drug dealers, and it's up to Indy to save this kid, and to teach him that guns are not the answer to any problem. In the end, the kid learns some valuable life lessons, and everyone lives happily ever after.
Sounds GOOD!

Randy_Flagg said:

I just heard this from a very reliable source:

Indy will be a changed man in Indy 4. He has become far more liberal and is now very opposed to guns and violence. Instead of trotting around the world having great adventures, he will be working at a youth club for troubled inner-city children. One of the kids gets involved with some drug dealers, and it's up to Indy to save this kid, and to teach him that guns are not the answer to any problem. In the end, the kid learns some valuable life lessons, and everyone lives happily ever after.
Sounds GOOD!

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Wow that is a radical reinterpretation of the character!

I'm just hoping for him to do some tap dancing (50's were the high point of the musical afterall)

apalehorse said:

Cain, waxing poetic. Beautiful.

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Ahh, Thanatos. You honor me!! But I hope amidst my majestic prose the keen insight was not missed.

This is the point where I laugh at myself.

bob said:

Randy_Flagg said:

I just heard this from a very reliable source:

Indy will be a changed man in Indy 4. He has become far more liberal and is now very opposed to guns and violence. Instead of trotting around the world having great adventures, he will be working at a youth club for troubled inner-city children. One of the kids gets involved with some drug dealers, and it's up to Indy to save this kid, and to teach him that guns are not the answer to any problem. In the end, the kid learns some valuable life lessons, and everyone lives happily ever after.
Sounds GOOD!

Click to expand...

Wow that is a radical reinterpretation of the character!

I'm just hoping for him to do some tap dancing (50's were the high point of the musical afterall)

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Tap dancing? I thought he was supposed to be a hip-hop Indiana Jones...

But seriously (or not), that just goes to show that there is a strange need for drug dealers to be involved in most every action film released nowadays.

I make an oath on this bar.

If any of what Randy has purported here above is true, not only will I disavow any knowledge of Indiana Jones, but I will start an all out petition to ban tap dancing.

Do I hear a second?...

apalehorse said:

I make an oath on this bar.

If any of what Randy has purported here above is true, not only will I disavow any knowledge of Indiana Jones, but I will start an all out petition to ban tap dancing.

Do I hear a second?...

Click to expand...

Well...no.

I'm sorry, it's as much my fault as anyone's, let's get back on topic, eh fellas?

As I recall, we were discussing Indy's potential for redemption. And as I said before, unless Virgil calls down from Limbo to guide Indy through the Underworld, I don't think it can happen, unless somebody else redeems him (no, I don't mean like a coupon). But who could?