Indiana Jones: The lost years

'allo

As i scrape the bottom of the barrel cleaner of thread ideas, i have been thinking.
It is assumed that Indy's life in the 50's will be broadly the same as it was in the 30's with him still teaching in the college; however i dont really see Indy after c.17 years still being in the same place condemmed to gather dust in academia.

People may say that this betrays the essential nature of the character, but people forget that Indiana Jones is who Indy is when he is out in the field in his fedora etc to the world he is Dr Jones, and Jones may have lost touch with the 'Indiana Jones' part of him after all he would be in his mid 50's, and the character must have changed a little.

Isn't it more likely (and fun to speculate) that Indy has moved on in life, for instance to:

1. It is likely that during WWII Indy would have had something to do with the war effort (particularly intelligence), mighten he have continued this role into the Cold War working on some US government project concerned with the Soviet attempts to locate occult artifacts perhaps growing more uneasy about it... (this scenario is not unlikely as he has worked for intelligence in Raiders, and presumably kept his mouth shut about the Ark)

2. Perhaps he has really gone down in the world since the 30's, and has become a shadow of his old self doing a menial job for reasons that the film would explain.

3. The US governments made a list of people who were anti-fascists 'too early' (i.e. pre WWII) this would include Indy, and this list was a euphenism for left wingers/communists and Indy a prominant public figure would come under suspicion post war, what with McCarthyism and Indy's links abroad. Mighten Indy be forced out of his job, and even have to live in a different country?

4. My favourite is that by the 50's Indy is a consultant for serials based on his own adventures, and has grown fat off his profits. Perhaps this would anger for instance Belloq's brother/old nemesis to go and get revenge on Indy....

Do I have to again remind that we have seen a post-war Indy in the Infernal Machine... in that piece, he seemed a college professor/digger first bored to death with what he was doing, but was able to catch up his old adventuring self at the moment the chance hit him. Of course, if you think that IM is apocryphal it's completely different story, and somehow I think they're not giving IM too much factor in Indy IV anyway.

I like bob's thoughts anyways. At any rate, he must have had <i>something</i> to do with the war. I don't see him approving of spying though - true CIA spooking is very departed from Indy's nature. More likely he did special assignments for the government, related to the recovery of ancient artificats - just like Belloq, for example, did for the nazis.

Odyssey

As usual, a great topic Bob.

I have always had an idea for Indiana Jones during World War II. In fact, I was going to write it. But since I have decided that after my current fiction work I'm going to call it quits as far as writing any more Indy fiction, I'll put this one out for some other ambitious Indiana Jones writer.

Anyway, I always thought that it would be interesting to create an epic type story that would encompass the entirety of World War II for Indiana Jones, and model it after Homer's Odyssey. Jones could disappear early in the war somewhere, and spend the whole war years trying to get back. He could go through all kinds of trials and tribulations throughout all of the theaters of war that World War II involved. It would try to parallell as closely as possible the trials and ordeals of Odysseus with analogous world war II scenarios.

I don't know though, if it's eithical to plagarize Homer.

I don't know though, if it's eithical to plagarize Homer-monkey

Bah, It's done all the time! Besides with Indy it wouldn't really be plagarizim.

Myself I believe that during WW2 Indy was simply doing many more archeoligical adventures, like the good old days!

Let us not forget Mystery of the blues where we see Indy in the 1950s. Ya its a small part but it Ford.

Agreed, good topic -- it's sort of a good clearinghouse for some ideas we've been kicking around. Sorry for the long post. . . .

(1) On Indy being a spook -- there have been any number of stories proposed where Indy has been recruited to help thwart Soviet attempts to locate occult artifacts. Generally, I don't like these because most if not all of these stories have the Soviets wanting some relic of power to further their own dark ends. Obviously, these stories echo the "Hitler is a nut on the subject" rationale from Raiders. What I really don't like about these stories is that same rationale/motive wouldn't work when talking about Stalin-era Communists. Any self-respecting Communist from Stalin's era wouldn't admit to any relic having any sort of supernatural power -- back then that type of thinking would have earned a one-way ticket to the Gulag. To the Soviets, the only thing with 'the power' was the People and the Party. Accordingly, the only Indy-type storyline or backstory that I could see working in Russia is the following: Stalin, intent on solidifying his hold on his population after WWII was determined to destroy all Russian religious and Tsarist relics -- this is historical fact. Wealthy Russian refugees (from say the safe confines of Paris or New York) could hire Indy to locate and smuggle these relics out of Soviet Russia. I don't think the CIA would spend big dollars to have Indy go into Russia to smuggle out Icons or other religious works (so I don't see Indy being a U.S. operative in this story). . . but big wealthy collectors would do this. I like this story because it's in-character for Indy and it could have Indy feeling like he's pimping himself out as he steals (for example) Religious relics out of the country where the peasants (or should I say the 'prols') still really need (and believe in) them.

(2) On Indy still being a professor. One of the things I love about LC is the shot of Indy climbing out of the window. If that isn't a sign that it's time for the guy to leave the classroom, then I don't know what is. What's interesting is that I could see Professor Jones going two ways here: (A) First, Indy could throw himself into his fieldwork. Picture an Indy, weary from WWII (doing whatever it was that he did) finding a big Incan/Mayan (whatever) city in Central/South America -- basically the type of site that could keep one archaeolgist busy for a lifetime -- and settling down. I could see this professional Indy loving life, waking up in his tent each morning and looking out onto his massive dig on the mountain below. Perhaps, he's also writing a huge work on the dig to prove to the academic world that he is a serious scholar. A little boring but conceivable. O.K, now for the second version -- (B) which I call the 'Champagne Indy'. After the war, let's say Indy decides that he's done with the Professor racket and he decides to go what might have been the Marcus Brody route. So he becomes a curator where he gets to live the good life. Not very interesting, but, believe it or not, I could see Indy choosing to coast and take it easy. Thinking on a big scale, this older Indy could become a big Curator of say the Met in New York and during the '50's he could be involved with people at the United Nations in formulating various treaties/protocols to better protect relics. With ties in both the U.N. crowd and with the Museum, I could see Indy being a regular invitee of the elite New York social/power scene . . . .

(3) Gutter-dwelling Indy. As we've discussed before, I like this but agree that we'll never see this.

(4) Red-Indy. While a big story out of the early fifties, I see Indy escaping the McCarthy witch-hunts. I see Indy as basically apolitical and while academics were targeted, most of these types were foriegn-born scientists. Plus, I think this is a tough storyline to explain to an audience in an action/adventure film. I could see Indy as an expatriot in any number of contexts.

(5) Indy-goes-Hollywood. I like this as a variation of the Champagne drinking Indy discussed above. When it comes to cashing in on his exploits, however, here again I can see Indy going two ways: (A) Indy cashes in and become a lounge lizard like the Kevin Spacey character in L.A. Confidential. This would be funny and plausible. Or, (B) Indy could be more like T.E. Lawrence and refuse to ever profit from his exploits. Obviously, this later version isn't much fun at all.

Lastly, a twist on Monkey's idea. I especially like the idea of one story that consumes Indy throughout the war, but instead of Indy trying to find his way home, how about Indy hunting some bad-guy during the course of the war and always just missing him. This nemesis would be some powerful, murky figure who somehow plays into many of the major event of the war. Indy would have special insight into this villian and it's Indy's personal mission to stop him. Belloq's Vichy-but-wordly brother could be just the person. The Odessy story works, but on a practical level, the Allies pretty much were able to travel around the world during war. So unless Indy was captured or always being pulled into local fights, I don't see the voyage home story being all that compelling. Moreover, I more like the idea of Indy being on the offensive during the War because that is closer to the U.S.'s role in the War after Pearl.

I don't expect anyone to read all of this rambling. Again, sorry about the length.

Joe, I read the whole thing and found it fascinating.

Personally I like your number 2 scenario with Indiana Jones going to some lost city or ruin somewhere and spending years excavating, studying, and writing. I see him sort of 'going native' too.

Stuck in a rut

All of Indy's mentors had the tragic flaw of being obsessed with some particular artifact or possession. I think it is extremely plausible that Indiana would find himself buried in some dig site somewhere pouring himself into every concieveable detail obsessing over it until almost virtually going mad.

I am reminded a bit of the Medicine Man character played by Connery a few years ago who had found "the cure to the plague of the 20th century, but {then he} lost it."

This of course means that Indy becomes the artifact that needs to be discovered or redemed (many threads talk about this) and I am sure I can find a few droolers on this board who would be more than willing to take up that role.

[Edited by apalehorse on 02-23-2004 at 07:48 am]

<small>disregard</small>

[Edited by apalehorse on 02-23-2004 at 07:48 am]

As ever Joe a great and fascinating post

As ever i have a few comments:

1. I too have grappled with the possibilities of Indy fighting the Soviets but i can see a one way that it may happen:
- At the end of the war secret German research/German archaeologist is captured and tells them of a hugely powerful energy source or weapon. However this would be a secular artifact such as Atlantis or the secret of the Philosophers Stone rather than an explicitly religious artifact.
- As for Spook Indy couldnt Indy become embroiled in a CIA plot to attempt to locate an artifact (after all they have the Ark), yes as you point out much of this would not happen in the real world but in the confines of the Indy universe it seems distinctly possible.

2. I love the idea of Indy actually being an archaeologist but i doubt that he could cut it as a methodical archaeologist personally (well it would depend if he was Dr Jones or Indiana Jones)
I like the idea of 'Champagne Indy' but i don't think it would work in the context of a 2 hr action-adventure film....

4. I keep coming back to the idea of McCarthyism and the wider issues of the Red Scare, i just feel it would serve as an excellent metaphor for what has happened to Indy and to America since the good olde days of the 30's. And those sinister army intelligence people would have significant leverage over Indy in any version of this scenario....

5. I feel that this would perhaps not be the ideal beginning for the character, but for me the immortalising of some sort of version of Indy into the serials, would serve as the ideal ending to the Indy series.

Seems like some options aren't plausible anymore. The sad side of getting to know spoilers of the actual plot is that we get limits to our imagination.

Seems like Indy in the 50's is more Dr Jones than Indiana.

• Is he proud of his work as a teacher, probably a respected teacher after all this years?
• Does he enjoy his days teaching students about "facts" after more than 20 years doing it?
• Or is he now a grey professor? A shadow of that adventurer he was in the past. No family, no friends (Marcus and Henry dead). Going from home to school and from school to home.

the 50's arent his time anymore. The world has changed, a lot. Does he see the new times with reluctancy? Does the increasingly speeding world overwhelm him? Does he look for a shelter in a dead past? Does he feel as a relic too?

Or am I thinking too dark?
He could easily have a "nice" life now, not with a family, but coming home late after visiting friends and looking at the fedora in a corner with a not so nostalgic smile.


What's interesting is that Spielberg, in a way, accompanies Indy in age. So he must probably link his feelings at this stage in his life to the feelings of the character. He may feel content with his life, but he must be concious that indy isn't like him. Indy's heart is nearer the fedora... that's the reason I think Indy will probably be frustrated and almost beaten in his daily routine as a teacher.
But adventure finds him after all this years and we will see the fire returning to his eyes.

Kingsley said:

He could easily have a "nice" life now, not with a family, but coming home late after visiting friends and looking at the fedora in a corner with a not so nostalgic smile.


What's interesting is that Spielberg, in a way, accompanies Indy in age. So he must probably link his feelings at this stage in his life to the feelings of the character. He may feel content with his life, but he must be concious that indy isn't like him. Indy's heart is nearer the fedora... that's the reason I think Indy will probably be frustrated and almost beaten in his daily routine as a teacher.
But adventure finds him after all this years and we will see the fire returning to his eyes.

Click to expand...

This is pretty much what I would imagine the set up of KotCS to be. Very nice, Kingsley!

Kingsley said:

No family, no friends (Marcus and Henry dead).

Click to expand...

Haha!

Oh wow...that image woke me up.

Good ideas, everyone.

Perhaps Indy really does enjoy teaching; it's just that dealing with all of his students one-on-one is a bit draining. As he seems like more of an introvert, this is a logical explanation of why he climbs out the window- he's run out of patience and needs to escape.

Or, maybe Indy finally had too much adventure during World War 2 and is happy to just go to work at the university for a while. He needed a break, perhaps, and hasn't been on an adventure for a while. When this new adventure comes along, he's finally ready to go back into it again.

Since it is the '50s, I do think Indy somehow involved with McCarthyism and Anti-Communist scares could be interesting. Maybe he got blacklisted, or threatened with being blacklisted, and had to stop adventuring for a while. Who knows? Sputnik was launched in 1957 as well...

And, last and slightly off topic, I think this is funny: Indy's request for tenure denied! http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/10/10bryan.html

NoCamels said:

Good ideas, everyone.

Perhaps Indy really does enjoy teaching; it's just that dealing with all of his students one-on-one is a bit draining. As he seems like more of an introvert, this is a logical explanation of why he climbs out the window- he's run out of patience and needs to escape.

Or, maybe Indy finally had too much adventure during World War 2 and is happy to just go to work at the university for a while. He needed a break, perhaps, and hasn't been on an adventure for a while. When this new adventure comes along, he's finally ready to go back into it again.

Since it is the '50s, I do think Indy somehow involved with McCarthyism and Anti-Communist scares could be interesting. Maybe he got blacklisted, or threatened with being blacklisted, and had to stop adventuring for a while. Who knows? Sputnik was launched in 1957 as well...

And, last and slightly off topic, I think this is funny: Indy's request for tenure denied! http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/10/10bryan.html

Click to expand...

great stuff

I think a lot of you miss exactly what the character Indiana Jones is...

1.) He is a busy man, teaching isn't his only thing. He climbs out of the window in LC because they are all pestering him about papers and grades and he obviously has been neglecting his teaching duties with his adventuring... so he just goes out the window to avoid the huge group outside.

2.) He does like to teach. I don't think teaching OR learning bores him in any way. He adventures to obtain rare items and lost fortunes/treasures for the academic sake as well as his own means of extra money, but not necessarily in a bad way. Teaching obviously doesn't pay as many of the bills as he would like... but we know that he does a lot of it for the museum and so he respects archeology and the history behind what he is pursuing. In the case of Nur Hachi, we never got the whole story. We don't know what the diamond was for exactly. Maybe he just wanted to cash-in or maybe the diamond was more important at the time. Who knows.

3.) He doesn't really LIKE the adventure part. He is always on adventures, but he is drawn to the object he is after... he doesn't really like getting shot at and things like that. And he DOES have morals so that's why he isn't too fond of Belloq.

4.) He isn't all that into patriotism. I believe Indy does like his country and all that, but I don't really think he would go out of his way to help in the war effort unless he got drafted. After all, the government took the Ark and just locked it away with "top men" looking after it. This disgusted Indy and he could do nothing about it.

... so if I were to guess Indy's character I'd say that...

He loves to learn about new things and teach them, he respects knowledge, he goes on adventures HIMSELF to obtain ancient relics for both academic reasons AND monetary gain when he needs it (I'm sure the museums and other places pay him nicely for finding these things)... he doesn't like the trouble he gets into while trying to do that, but it happens and he has adapted to it. He is introverted, so he doesn't share a lot with other people and keeps to himself mostly... and this puts him more into his work as a teacher and adventurer... and he never particularly seemed to want to STOP the Nazis so much as avoid them if he could. I think he only did what he did because he was directly involved with them in Raiders and LC. He doesn't like them but it's none of his business... I think would be his take on WWII... unless drafted of course, then he would HAVE to serve.

And I think he actually considers himself a badass in that outfit he wears with the name Indiana. In other words, it makes him feel cool. That's kind of a childish thing about him that's funny.



... if I guessed what he did in his absence since LC ....



I would guess that he continued to teach and do what he does. Perhaps now after Marcus has died, he became the owner/curator of the museum itself and now that takes up most of his duties time outside of just teaching. I imagine he has other people obtain items for him now. Maybe he still does it some of the time.

I'd find it hard to believe he'd be wearing the same outfit in the 50's... but lol, I mean it's a movie... it wouldn't be cool if they changed that part.

... anyway, that's just my take on it.

thats the ugliest cat ive ever seen...poor Indy no family or friends BUT WAIT a second Mutt and Marion...hmmmm



dang i hate when i dont read every post

bob said:

'allo

4. My favourite is that by the 50's Indy is a consultant for serials based on his own adventures, and has grown fat off his profits. Perhaps this would anger for instance Belloq's brother/old nemesis to go and get revenge on Indy....

Click to expand...

I'm gonna be sick. That was the corniest thing i have heard someone fart out of there mouth in my hole life.

Sorry just being honest