Indy actively pursuded several artifacts in the trilogy. They are al follows:
The Idol of Fertility
The Lost Ark (through the pursuading of U.S. Officials)
The Remains of Nurhachi - the first Emperor of the Manchu Dynasty.
The Sankara Stones (though not directly)
The Cross of Coronado, (not a pursuit, a revenge)
The Grail
Out of this list, only 1 has real merit, the Idol. If Indy is a mason, there is evidence enough to tie Eaton and Musgrove to such a society, for the obtainment of the Ark, as well as the Grail. Nurhachi was for money, the Cross was a revenge and the Stones were never a consideration outside obligation.
Freemasonry, a worldwide fraternal organization, often calls itself "a peculiar system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols." Its members are joined together by high ideals, of both a moral and metaphysical nature (and, in the majority of branches, by a common belief in a Supreme Being). Freemasonry is an "esoteric art," in that certain aspects of its internal work are not generally revealed to the public. Masons give numerous reasons for this, one of which is that Freemasonry uses an initiatory system of degrees to explore ethical and philosophical issues, and this system is less effective if the observer knows beforehand what will happen.
I am in part baffled and in part inspired by your dedication to this theory Pale Horse!
Now I can believe and have suggested that there is something sinister in the establishment American figures in the Indy trilogy (Army intelligence guys, and even Donovan whose pursuit of the occult and Nazi links may not be confined to him) Now they could be part of a secret organisation.....
But Indy?
He is just not that sort of character, I mean part of his appeal is that he is outside of the establishment conspiracies etc
I always subscribed to bob's view on Indy's independence -- but for the sake of discussion -- I wonder if Palehorse is shooting for something a little more discreet here . . .
For example, I could see a scenario where for the better part of his life Indy was the unwitting tool of the Masons. In other words, those around him -- his father, Marcus, etc. -- manipulated Indy (without Indy's knowledge) to achieve the Mason's presumably positive ends. Is this where you're headed Palehorse?
I think that's a compelling storyline but personally I wouldn't want to see Indy made a part of any organization because that affilation would diminish him.
I could really go off on a tangent here, but I dislike much of the Indy backstory in Last Crusade precisely because I think story elements like Henry Sr.'s education of Indy and Marcus Brody's relationship with Henry Sr. takes away from Indy's accomplishments and the perception of Indy as a 'loner'.
I don't know if I am necessarily dedicated to this theroy. I think some of it stems from a yearning for long and educated discussions of our famous character. With nothing on the horizon, this board sometimes resembles that of a glorified chat-room (yes I can flood from time to time too.) But that doesn't negate the need to explore somewhat deeper aspects of a compelling character.
The 50's setting in IJ-IV presents us with all sorts of darker elements that most likley be absent from the final product if it ever gets made. Speculating about them is just a good way to stimulate the old grey matter, in between the stuff you do to stimulate the red matter (muscles).
As much as people like to think that Indy is an independant archeologist, the truth is he is constantly pushed into/around/through all of his adventures. Sure he may tell Elsa "You like the way I do things" but the fact remains, he is the reluctant professor that would rather escape through the window, than deal with the responsibility of actually grading papers. He does not seem the type to seek out responsibility, he only satisfies it when he is forced into it. It makes him very similar to a pawn on a chess board.
So what I want to know is this? Who's playin' chess with Indy?
I stand to be corrected since Im not even well versed in the subject to begin with, so my questions may be a little premature, but, Im curious.
I may be a little off, but isn't it bitterly ironic that someone that is or is to become an freemason, the pledge and alliegience one holds to such a society must be aknowledged? Doesn't it counteract the whole purpose of the organization if this is true? If Indy knowingly held those principles subscribed to in the first thread (the one on the ideal description of a mason), wouldn't it prove ineffective on the whole following an loose description of this doctrine, and only later finding out you messed up somewhere? Being an mason, and following a certain code, would also run the risk for second guessing one's self, wouldn't it?
From the perspective of a novice it would be difficult, and Im sure even for a veteran. There is also the ideals, since they fluctuate, so an re-entry may be necessary...
Interesting topic, I also read through the original thread on the subject and I liked what I saw. I only have an vague understanding of the masons, but the premise is there. The society's extent and influence on the outside varibles, or if Indy himself is an free mason, could be interpreted, but unfortunately, its only going to be circumstance and it will be questioned, as there isn't any clear evidence; only speculation seems to be the only reasonable way freemasonry could work in the films.
But I would like to carry it forward, nonetheless; the idea is intriquing and it should be allowed to grow further.
I agree with the point of view you put across Pale Horse, Indy could be manipulated by a group such as the Masons and is throughout the movies..... But of some specific link by Indy to the Masons and he being some Masonic Messiah is quite another matter.
But I think it is very difficult to construct an uber conspiracy out of the trilogy; but I wish you luck in doing so - it is good to see some original thought on the movies.
So there I am thinking about the fact that Indiana Jones may be a Free Mason when the phrase "Indiana Jones: Free Mason" popped into my head, and I realized that in fact that statement actually points to the fact that IJ-IV is really about the Garden of Eden
Come on you all see it I know:
I foresee a Madonnas Jinn
Jinn being the plural Islamic reference to any spirit that takes the form of an animal being, you know, the Snake in the Garden...
work with me here people....I am on to something...
Last edited by Pale Horse : 07-01-2004 at 02:01 PM.
Come-on Raveners (esp. those long forgotten from this thread)
btw, isn't interesting the choice of avatars by some of the more respected minds of this board...interesting
The list above has a distinct thread sewn through it. Can anyone else see its color? It's purple.
I think if we can find the connection in the artifacts, we can determine the next one Indy will be comissioned to find...
btw, isn't interesting the choice of avatars by some of the more respected minds of this board...interesting
Before I can try wrapping my mind around the artifacts, this is one is bugging me. First, I'd have to know who the "respected minds" were before I could even hope to answer this. Do you want me to guess?
Here's my guess: with the exception of YOU Pale Horse, the "respected minds" at the Raven prefer avatars of morally ambiguous characters (or just straight up evil ones ).
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