What's the worst that could happen?

Aaron H

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
In you opinion, and barring IV not being made, what is the worst possible thing that could happen to the IV film's storyline (specifics please)?

The worst thing that could happen in my book would be Indy being killed off-screen or in some cheesy fashion (falling off a bridge or being shot by some Nazi stooge).
 
San Holo

San Holo

Active member
I would hate to see an old Indy passing the torch to a younger actor in the action/romance department.
 
Jay R. Zay

Jay R. Zay

New member
i think the worst thing would be an Indy IV full of badly done CGI and an indy that was made to entirely suit the rather "modern" audience. i don't have a problem with calista flockhart, i've had time to accept that he won't fight against the nazis again, i could even deal with the idea that he dies in indy IV. but at least they should make it a real adventure again, not some kind of a modernized version. something for the original fans, not for potentially new ones.

on the other hand somebody has to pay the money for another indy movie.
 
Paden

Paden

Member
I'd have to agree with most of what has already been said. I think that the worst that could happen would be a film that is not true to the other movies in the trilogy in some significant way. Such as passing off the action to Indiana's younger companion (son/student/etc.), and having Indiana himself make only a minor contribution. I think the limitations of Indy's age can be handled in such a way that the action is credible, and even where his limits play into the suspense of some of the movie's sequences. But relegating him to a helpless mentor role would be unacceptable. As well, I hope that the movie retains the B-movie/pulp feel of its predecessors. Turning it into a CGI effects fest, in which the effects are more important than the characters, would be a real disappointment. As Jay said, the producers need to make a film that will satisfy longtime fans of the series, not try to reinvent Indiana to appeal to a younger demographic. Part of the foundation of the series is the old cliffhanger adventure serials, which have a timeless quality that will appeal to any audience, young or old. If they don't mess with that foundation, I think they could make a film that a broad range of viewers will enjoy and appreciate. If they try to "modernize" it, I think it will be a disaster.
 
IndyBuff

IndyBuff

Well-known member
Paden said:
I'd have to agree with most of what has already been said. I think that the worst that could happen would be a film that is not true to the other movies in the trilogy in some significant way. Such as passing off the action to Indiana's younger companion (son/student/etc.), and having Indiana himself make only a minor contribution. I think the limitations of Indy's age can be handled in such a way that the action is credible, and even where his limits play into the suspense of some of the movie's sequences. But relegating him to a helpless mentor role would be unacceptable. As well, I hope that the movie retains the B-movie/pulp feel of its predecessors. Turning it into a CGI effects fest, in which the effects are more important than the characters, would be a real disappointment. As Jay said, the producers need to make a film that will satisfy longtime fans of the series, not try to reinvent Indiana to appeal to a younger demographic. Part of the foundation of the series is the old cliffhanger adventure serials, which have a timeless quality that will appeal to any audience, young or old. If they don't mess with that foundation, I think they could make a film that a broad range of viewers will enjoy and appreciate. If they try to "modernize" it, I think it will be a disaster.
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My thoughts exactly. A great story, interesting and well thought-out characters, a "B-movie" feel and staying true to the spirit of the other three films will help ensure that this film lives up to the name of Indiana Jones. :whip:
 
Deadlock

Deadlock

New member
Indy said:
My thoughts exactly. A great story, interesting and well thought-out characters, a "B-movie" feel and staying true to the spirit of the other three films will help ensure that this film lives up to the name of Indiana Jones. :whip:
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Not to jump down your throat, Indy... but I think this is EXACTLY the type of well-intentioned vaguery that, if it is also occurring at LucasFilm, is going to get us an unsatisfactory Indy 4. It's not that I disagree with any of points you made, but I think it's harder than you think. The thing that stuck out the most to me is your statement "true to the spirit of the other three films"...

What spirit is that? To me, the films are varied at so many levels, that I don't know if there is one "spirit"... Unless that spirit so generic as it will be difficult to define the films in a way worthy of emulation. It is these kinds of generalities that make me nervous about Indy 4. As an example, I will cite the Indy video games. "What's wrong with them?" you ask. Well, they seem to have all the right elements: Indy, artifact, international travel, traps, puzzles, combat with competitors, encounter with the supernatural. But that's just it... the games are "Indy in general." They're TOO general, there's nothing to make them stand on their own and that's why I don't find any of their stories to be very compelling.

Besides the stuff mentioned previously mentioned and all incredibly absurd things (like cameos from the Muppets, or a Hillary Duff soundtrack), I'd like to see the Big Three avoid some subtler pitfalls.

What concerns me most is their treatment of the Jones characters in the 1950s. The two temptations here are either assuming a) Indy hasn't changed at all or, b) he's waning into a fussy old guy obsessed with one or all of the above: his age, obsolescence, or retirement (IE ?I?m getting to old for this shtuff.?) Given the mighty leap in timeframe from the original films, it?s obvious that the world that Indy inhabits has changed... I?d like to see a thoughtful and intriguing change in the character as well.

Also, given the change to the fifties era and the move from WW2 to the Cold War, I would just like to voice my distrust of simply making the Russians the bad guys. I?m not saying it categorically couldn?t work, but I just think it?s too simplistic, too clichéd, and too easy for standard-issue American sensibilities. It just sounds LAZY to me. Pitting Indy against some evil organization that has legions of brainless thugs for him to mow through is a convention that the video game developers will appreciate, but not what I want to see in the film.
 
TombReader

TombReader

New member
I agree with Deadlock.I think that Indy 4 will definitely has the potential to be the most disappointing or the most enjoyable film in the series(ROTLA notwithstanding).
 
I

intergamer

New member
I also agree with Deadlock. His screenplay and also my plot treatment which I've never released because I'm a perfectionist, both address these issues. And believe it or not, I have a hunch that it is Lucas who is most aware of these issues, and Darabont and Spielberg who would have fallen into the traps.
 
Deadlock

Deadlock

New member
Hey Intergamer, you should finish up that treatment. I'd be interested to see another serious attempt at the Indy 4 crown. :)
 
TombReader

TombReader

New member
intergamer said:
And believe it or not, I have a hunch that it is Lucas who is most aware of these issues, and Darabont and Spielberg who would have fallen into the traps.
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I have always thought the same thing,intergamer.


It could be as bad as/or worse than the Star Wars prequels....

That would SUCK!!


You had to edit that post because of spelling?That's sad.
 
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Joe Brody

Joe Brody

Well-known member
I'm nauseous over the rumored involvement of the former leading ladies.

Assuming there is to be a daughter character, how can any action-adventure narrative sustain the appearance/involement of at least two of the former leading ladies in any significant role?

Short of seeing their name(s) on a headstone [hat tip to Deadlock], I'm 99% sure that I don't what to see either of the Willy Scott or Marion Ravenwood characters in the next film -- with VERY NARROW exceptions: (i) I could tolerate the Willy Scott character in a role like that played by Claire Trevor's Gaye Dawn character in Key Largo (drunk over-the-hill nightclub singer), or (ii) a fleeting scene with Marion where she has a role like the Old Man in Raiders -- meaning one scene where she's almost etheral and she simply imparts a nugget of knowledge and then fades into the mist).
 
IndyBuff

IndyBuff

Well-known member
Deadlock said:
Not to jump down your throat, Indy... but I think this is EXACTLY the type of well-intentioned vaguery that, if it is also occurring at LucasFilm, is going to get us an unsatisfactory Indy 4. It's not that I disagree with any of points you made, but I think it's harder than you think. The thing that stuck out the most to me is your statement "true to the spirit of the other three films"...

What spirit is that? To me, the films are varied at so many levels, that I don't know if there is one "spirit"... Unless that spirit so generic as it will be difficult to define the films in a way worthy of emulation. It is these kinds of generalities that make me nervous about Indy 4. As an example, I will cite the Indy video games. "What's wrong with them?" you ask. Well, they seem to have all the right elements: Indy, artifact, international travel, traps, puzzles, combat with competitors, encounter with the supernatural. But that's just it... the games are "Indy in general." They're TOO general, there's nothing to make them stand on their own and that's why I don't find any of their stories to be very compelling.

Besides the stuff mentioned previously mentioned and all incredibly absurd things (like cameos from the Muppets, or a Hillary Duff soundtrack), I'd like to see the Big Three avoid some subtler pitfalls.

What concerns me most is their treatment of the Jones characters in the 1950s. The two temptations here are either assuming a) Indy hasn't changed at all or, b) he's waning into a fussy old guy obsessed with one or all of the above: his age, obsolescence, or retirement (IE ?I?m getting to old for this shtuff.?) Given the mighty leap in timeframe from the original films, it?s obvious that the world that Indy inhabits has changed... I?d like to see a thoughtful and intriguing change in the character as well.

Also, given the change to the fifties era and the move from WW2 to the Cold War, I would just like to voice my distrust of simply making the Russians the bad guys. I?m not saying it categorically couldn?t work, but I just think it?s too simplistic, too clichéd, and too easy for standard-issue American sensibilities. It just sounds LAZY to me. Pitting Indy against some evil organization that has legions of brainless thugs for him to mow through is a convention that the video game developers will appreciate, but not what I want to see in the film.
Click to expand...

You bring up some excellent points Deadlock. I didn't mean for my message to sound so vague but maybe it did. I'll try to clear things up a little:

My reference to the "spirit" of the films was simply a term I was using to describe the films in general. Like you mentioned, each one is different and there's plenty of variety. However, each film has had several elements (artifact of great power, evil organizations and a great villian, plenty of action and adventure, etc) that I feel help define the Indiana Jones films. There's no real formula or anything, just a style and feel that helps tie the three together, at least in some way for me.

I too am nervous about the 1950s setting and possible Russian involvement. The Nazis and the Thuggee cult made great enemies but I don't know how Soviets and communists would fit into the mix. I also don't think that other characters like Marion or Short Round should come back unless they can truely add something to the story and the movie instead of just a cameo for old times' sake. I think the story and characters involved have to be good and measure up to the other films without being predictable and cheesy.

In other words, I just hope the film is as good as the first three. :)
 
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Aaron H

Aaron H

Moderator Emeritus
You see, I am of somewhat of a different line of thought here. ToD is an example of how IV should NOT be, it was over-the-top and not enough of a driving force behind the film. Whereas, Raiders and LC both had an important mission that was spilled out at the beginning. The Thuggies weren't any threat, the British Army proved that. However, the Nazi's empowered by the Ark or the Grail...now that was something to fear.

Thus, another "worse thing" that could happen would be to have a threat to localized. The threat needs to be gobal in scale to such a point that the audience knows that if Indy fails we will all die (so-to-speak).
 
San Holo

San Holo

Active member
temple of john said:
The more I thinkabout it, I think Lucas is going to take this too far. Leaving off with LC left a good taste in everyone's mouth but he is going to take a great thing and turn it bad. Star Wars anyone?
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I seriously doubt that will happen. Lucas' ideas and stories are very good, he just has a problem directing them. And that is where Spielberg comes in. Harrison Ford is not gonna sign off on a crapfest script either. Indiana Jones is the legacy that these three men will leave behind, and I don't beleive they are gonna make a movie that ruins the franchise :p
 
C

ClintonHammond

Guest
"Harrison Ford is not gonna sign off on a crapfest script either."

Hollywood Homicide... crap!
K-19: The Widowmaker.... crap!
What Lies Beneath... crap!
Random Hearts... crap!
Six Days Seven Nights... crap!

That's every movie he made from 1998 to date... What assume anything's gonna change cause it's a sequel?
 
Jay R. Zay

Jay R. Zay

New member
the only of these i know is K-19 and i seriously wouldn't say it is crap. it isn't an action movie and it isn't about american heros but if we ignore these two major flaws, it can still be an acceptable production, can't it?
 
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