Indy and Marion Question...

Raveners-Something I've always wondered? What exactly happend between Indy and his sweetie pre-Raiders? According to http://www.theraider.net (gee, I wonder what THAT website is like?) the scene where Indy and Marion rehash some of their past, and also Marion talks about her father Abner, was deleted during post-production. So, my question is, what did Indy do to well, how shall I put it, **** Marion off at his resurfacing later when their paths crossed again at The Raven Bar? (And yes, 00Kevin is right, there is another Raven where paths cross too!)

Which brings into question, does Marion's line in raiders really mean she was like a late teen in age during her fling with Indy? She says, "I was child!" To which Indy responds, "You knew what you were doing!" So was Marion supposed to be like 18, and Indy like 28-ish during when they first met?

Courtesy of Mr. Earch...

2 threads on this topic:

http://www.theraider.net/theraven/showthread.php?threadid=3075

http://www.theraider.net/theraven/showthread.php?threadid=93

Another extensive thread about Marion:

http://www.theraider.net/theraven/showthread.php?threadid=3428

OK as i dislike Mr.Earch i will give my opinion.

Indy while being trained by Abner i s'pose met Marion who was 10 years or so younger, Marion liked Indy and Indy got into a sort of relationship with Marion which was more to her than it was to him. Possibly Indy did or was believed to be by Abner taking advantage of Marion and perhaps she got pregnant (Cough Indy IV); or perhaps Abner and Indy just had a bust up over it and Indy left possibly because it was getting too heavy for him or because Abner told him to.

But when i watch Raiders this is the situation that seems most likely, however it does not sound like the activities of YIJ + 3 years which we know was pretty noble and goodly and would never do anything even vaguely character building. It depends what Indy you believe in suppose....

Good Thoughts and Thanks...

Atilla for the links. Yeah, obviously there is a lot of history between Indy and Marion. As a 19 year-old girl myself, having a "relationship" with your mentor's daughter probably would not score points with the parental units. I guess this is one aspect of Indy that is open to great debate. TPTB always wanted Indy to have a playboy type side.

That's a good one!

Indy4ever said:

always wanted Indy to have a playboy type side.

Click to expand...

LOL Me too...I wonder why?

Indy4ever brought up something very interesting. I have always wondered what happened. I have my own ideas on what happened but am always open to others'. I think that Marion was about 18 or so, and she and Indy got into a relationship that had been building for quite sometime, since Indy had been an apprentice for sometime. Indy wasnt as serious as Marion, Marion thought she had found her knight, and they ended up sleeping together. Either 1 or 2 happened. 1, she ended up getting pregnant, and Indy left. Or 2, Indy finished training soon after that and left Marion, devestated.
Any thoughts on this idea are welcomed

Indy left her brokenhearted is my feeling...

I too Marion, feel that a young (18 or so) Marion got involved with Indy. She thought it was true love, and he soon left, leaving her devastated. Yes, I also think an Indy child is possible. I guess Marion just never got around to telling him in "Raiders." After all, she says, "We never seem to get a break due we!"

I explain this for myself in pretty simple terms, not really overcomplicating things:

"I was a child. I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it!"

Says to me, as some others have said, she loved him, but he wasn't quite to that point in the relationship. But being like any guy, he would have no objections to sleeping with the lady, love or not.

"You knew what you were doing."

I feel personally that she initiated, seduced him, although that doesn't necessarily have to follow.

"You know, he loved you like a son. It took a hell of a lot for you to alienated him."
"Not much. Just you."

I feel this gets overlooked, because everyone knows the basket game is coming up, so gets lost in the anicipation of the fight. In one of the topics links, I got the impression that people were having difficulty trying to figure out what caused the falling out between himself and Abner. It's laid out pretty clearly in the exchange above.

Sure a simple relationship with someones daughter might put a strain on a relationship. But how about finding out that Indy slept with her? I believe that is the catalyst for the falling out. Consider the time period, the taboo against sex out of wedlock must have been very strong. I don't think the situation is more complicated than that, although I have found some of the speculation interesting.

That's kind of interesting. I had always assumed something along those lines. A thought just occured to me. When Indy retorts, "Not much, just you!" I had always been assuming that he was playfully insulting her. The whole scene was playful banter at that point.

But, what if Indy was really angry with her. (At least subconcouisly.) Maybe deep down inside he kind of resented her for being the catalyst that destroyed his relationship with Abner. (Or maybe I'm reading a whole hell of a lot into a very small scene.)

Yes, I think the brief scene in the market in Cairo right before the attack begins is significant. Perhaps Spielberg wanted to downplay it in a sense. He wanted the audience to know there was a definite HISTORY to Indy and Marion, but he still wanted the movie to be light-hearted and focus on Indy's quest for the ark/heroics etc. As it is, this leaves the possibility for another side of Indy and Marion to be explored in Indy IV-persay.

As for the "playboy" side of Indy that was originally intended, has anyone ever noticed that the robe he wears in Raiders, as he is packing and discussing the impending journey with Marcus, looks EXACTLY like a robe Hugh Hefner would wear?

Granted, the Hef was not around in the 30s, but Raiders was made in the 80s, about 25-30 years after Hef's first public foray with his magazine, and standard clothing of bedroom attire. Maybe, I am reading into it too much. However, Indiana never comes across/nor is he sleazy.

Indy4ever said:

As for the "playboy" side of Indy that was originally intended, has anyone ever noticed that the robe he wears in Raiders, as he is packing and discussing the impending journey with Marcus, looks EXACTLY like a robe Hugh Hefner would wear?

Granted, the Hef was not around in the 30s, but Raiders was made in the 80s, about 25-30 years after Hef's first public foray with his magazine, and standard clothing of bedroom attire. Maybe, I am reading into it too much. However, Indiana never comes across/nor is he sleazy.

Click to expand...

You might be reading too much into this. He was supposed to wear a tux in that scene, where he would be entertaining a Jean Harlow-type. I don't think the robe has anything to do with that aspect of his character though.

I agree. I overanalyzed the robe. The post was supposed to be kind of funny in a way. I guess sometimes it is easy to dig too deep into the Indy movies.

I had always assumed something along those lines. A thought just occured to me. When Indy retorts, "Not much, just you!" I had always been assuming that he was playfully insulting her. The whole scene was playful banter at that point.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think it's playful banter, with a bitter edge to it:
"He has your looks."
"And your brains."

Until a certain point, when Marion brings up the "falling out" with Abner. At that point, I feel that Indy is angry for her bringing it up, but I feel that Indy is still being truthful, as far as he sees it, when he puts the blame on her for the breakdown of the relationship. They both sound serious about what they say. That's just my opinion though, for what it's worth.

1926
indy is 27
marion is 15

(if this is sounding too jerry lee lewis like, pardon the truth)

abner is a mentor to indy. marions daughter is awestruck (yes little stars in her eyes) when she first meets indy and has a crush (im 16, id know). indy is a ladies man (thats very well documented). indy figures out that marion likes him and they like to talk a lot together. abner is suspicious. marion leads him on, and he deflowers her. marion regrets it. abner finds out. abner boots indy out saying he doesnt want him to ever go near him and marion again or something. thus, the affair with marion alienates him from his mentor. marion still holds on to her first love in memory and still loves him with all of her heart. indy has feelings for marion too ("do you think shes still with him?" -indy "marion is the least of your worries" -brody). marion hides love with anger, therefore slaps him when they meet again 10 years later in the ravens bar in nepal. abner was killed in an avalanch, marion was left pennyless and turned to running a bar and possible prostitution. when indy returns, her old feelings towards him resurface and so do his towards her. thus, raiders.

[Edited by NileQT87-Solo_Baggins on 05-10-2003 at 05:22 pm]

Agree, Agree, and agree.

"I was just a child"

I personally think that she actually was, meaning 16 or 17. Everybody here but a few seem to want to put her at 18. I think they just want to protect Indy from any statutory rape charges. But I think the "Child" part of that famous line can't be overlooked. If she had been 18 at the time then I think the line would have been more like "I was young". I think the "child" part was intentional. And I think it is important in regards to Abner's reaction.

This idea of Indy as a cradle snatcher etc, may fit in with the mysterious figure in Raiders but definately not the sanitised LC figure or the YIJ Saintly naive figure we have got to know.

Im not going to debate Marion's age, but she was reportedly young, at least thats agreeable.

Precisely why I don't like the YIJ series at all. It's definitely not the character. It might as well be someone else.

As for the sanitized character in LC, I think he's quite boring when you compare him with the character in Raiders.

I'll take the character in Raiders (and TOD for that matter) over all others. That is the real Indiana Jones, before they tried to mould him into some kind of goody two-shoes role model for adolescents.

specifically why i like raiders the best. indy and marion are the best together. its actually amusing to watch them (especially marion trying to get away from the snakes in the well of the souls...shes climing all over indy...lol).

NileQT87 said:

1926
indy is 27
marion is 15

abner is a mentor to indy. marions daughter is awestruck (yes little stars in her eyes) when she first meets indy and has a crush (im 16, id know). indy is a ladies man (thats very well documented). indy figures out that marion likes him and they like to talk a lot together. abner is suspicious. marion leads him on, and he deflowers her. marion regrets it. abner finds out. abner boots indy out saying he doesnt want him to ever go near him and marion again or something. thus, the affair with marion alienates him from his mentor. marion still holds on to her first love in memory and still loves him with all of her heart. indy has feelings for marion too ("do you think shes still with him?" -indy "marion is the least of your worries" -brody). marion hides love with anger, therefore slaps him when they meet again 10 years later in the ravens bar in nepal. abner was killed in an avalanch, marion was left pennyless and turned to running a bar and possible prostitution. when indy returns, her old feelings towards him resurface and so do his towards her. thus, raiders.

[Edited by NileQT87-Solo_Baggins on 05-10-2003 at 05:22 pm]

Click to expand...

if the plot in indy 4 goes the way it seems it will go... there is something left to be solved between indy an his "mentor".

But after all this time, does that incident really matter?
Will it be refered?
Abner being alive is shocking enough to reduce to insignificance past relationships... what do you think?