CGI in KotCS [Pre-release discussion]

I mentioned this in another thread...it's possible that portions of the CGI we see in the trailer aren't officially complete yet. They're still working on the film's effects in general, and perhaps they just worked something up that was basically presentable for the trailer...like, Steven cut the trailer with only representative unfinished effects, and had them work on those parts first before the rest of the film so the trailer could be released.

The temple/quicksand sequence looks top notch to me--couldn't be much better really. But the warriors swarming down the staircase are clearly imported digitally (they have that light tint to them), and the jungle cliff is a little bit off somehow.

When we get a full-length trailer, I think that will be a much better time to judge the quality of the effects.

I watched it yet again and there's really ony a handfull of CGI shots. The temple was built as a large set, only the background was CG. The plane is real, the explosion is real (but composited), I think the whip onto the truck IS a stunt but may have been against blue screen then composited, the jeeps on the cliff was real but with a digital backdrop. There's nothing here that wasn't done optically in the first three.

This all looks good. Dont get it!

commontone said:

The temple/quicksand sequence looks top notch to me--couldn't be much better really. But the warriors swarming down the staircase are clearly imported digitally (they have that light tint to them)

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I saw a big version of the trailer and some of them have body paint.

sandiegojones said:

I watched it yet again and there's really ony a handfull of CGI shots. The temple was built as a large set, only the background was CG. The plane is real, the explosion is real (but composited), I think the whip onto the truck IS a stunt but may have been against blue screen then composited, the jeeps on the cliff was real but with a digital backdrop. There's nothing here that wasn't done optically in the first three.

This all looks good. Dont get it!

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Agreed. The originals were hardly composite free when it came to special effects. You have to use modern tools of the day, especially on a big studio film where time is money.

And I also don't get people saying the whip was CGI. Way to doubt Ford's skills.

Coming soon had this poll:

How would you rate the new "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" teaser trailer?
10 out of 10 40.6%
8 out of 10 18.4%
9 out of 10 18.1%
7 out of 10 10.5%
6 out of 10 4.6%
5 out of 10 2.5%
0 out of 10 1.7%
4 out of 10 1.4%
3 out of 10 1.1%
1 out of 10 0.7%
2 out of 10 0.5%

With about 90% of people thinking it's great to well above average I guess that the haters are in the minority so I shouldn't worry.

sandiegojones said:

I saw a big version of the trailer and some of them have body paint.

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I'm aware of that...I mean, they have that kind of glow that computer overlays tend to have, where the brightness or some color components don't quite match the surroundings. I know it wasn't CGI but in Star Wars, the space ships had the same thing--actually an entire rectangle surrounding the ships that was lighter in color, which was corrected for the reissues.

It's a little disappointing...they couldn't round up several dozen Native actors to play warriors and run down some stairs? With a budget over $100 million? Maybe I'm totally wrong and there is no digital cloning.

But as per my opinion above, I'm gonna wait for a full trailer before I let myself get too carried away.

AHegele said:

I guarantee you Indy in that scene is a real person, either Ford or a stuntman. They may have matted out harneses and may have added a digital hanging light, but it definitely is a classic hollywood stunt.

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I agree. This is exactly why earlier in the thread I wanted people to say what they think is CGI. Because if any other movie or director did a shot like this it would probably be CGI. But not Spielberg. Its just an elaborate practical shot.

I think that Spielberg has been influenced by the Whip swinging shots in Mask of Zorro. Which he himself produced but Martin Campbell directed. Spielberg complimented Campbell saying it had some of the best Adventure sequences since Raiders. Which is ironic and appropriate given that one of the inspirations for Indian Jones using a whip was the old Zorro serials.

It should be noted that all of the Mask of Zorro whip swinging was done with real stunt men. No reason to think similar shots in KotS were not done the same way.

I'm aware of that...I mean, they have that kind of glow that computer overlays tend to have, where the brightness or some color components don't quite match the surroundings. I know it wasn't CGI but in Star Wars, the space ships had the same thing--actually an entire rectangle surrounding the ships that was lighter in color, which was corrected for the reissues.

It's a little disappointing...they couldn't round up several dozen Native actors to play warriors and run down some stairs? With a budget over $100 million? Maybe I'm totally wrong and there is no digital cloning.

But as per my opinion above, I'm gonna wait for a full trailer before I let myself get too carried away.

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I think the big shafts of sunlight is a big reason they look that way.

SterankoII said:

I think the big shafts of sunlight is a big reason they look that way.

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Gah...I do have eyes to see body paint and shafts of light. I'm thinking beyond that stuff. I guess I'll be alone on that one for now.

Ok

CGI and CGE - here ya go

Some sweetening to the headpiece effect from ROLA

I'd need to check but I don't recall the overhead shot of the Trimotor from TOD

US flag added (international trailer doesn't and it hasn't been digitally erased)

Some digital dust in the hat picking up scene

Possibly digital silhouette/shadow of Indy on car

Entire "This ain't going to be easy" scene (guns erased, clothes fixed to hide removal, etc) - this for the US PG trailer

Whip swing/crash into truck is a real stuntman but with Ford's face superimposed (pretty old school CGI nowadays) and added lamp, harness removal, etc; Ford does final bit of gag into the truck and delivers line

Swing out of truck before crash - looks more CGI than real

Warehouse explosion looks totally digital

Plane - might be a model, but looks digital in HD trailer

Natives appearing is practical

Falls look real

Everyone can see the car chase (sub-Kong effects, but not final version - look at the shadows under the cars)

Explosion is practical

Blade rushing towards car (Indy with RPG shot) is CGI

Next set of temple shots obviously CG

Running down steps is practical with CG surround

Native chasing down steps - largely practical (almost every shot in a movie is digitally sweetened today)

Shia in the pit - sweetened lightning and leaves blowing about

Swing in laboratory above rocket sled - CG window probably

Indy silhouette after part-time looks digital to me

I think the warehouse explosion is real, but the soldiers were added (just to keep them safe).

I think the titles may have been CGI too!

The trailer was awesome. I don't think we have any reason to believe that this tailer is an exact representation of what the actual movie will be like though.

They didn't give any plot details away, they basically gave us 30 seconds of an exciting scene, some stuff that might not even be in the film (the shadow part) some action cuts and a couple lines. Notice too that most all the pictures we've been seeing seem to almost be right out of the trailer! (or at least from those parts) I think its possible that some of this special effects work isn't exactly as we'll see it in the movie.

I do prefer real stunt work to most CGI as a general rule, because it just has a more "real" feel to it. From what I've heard and seen, I don't have any real fears of CGI being over-used in a fakey fashion.

@God'sRadio: Nice breakdown!

To me I was glad to see that that was clearly Harrison Ford swinging and crashing into that truck! And even if that might have been a stuntman running on the crates at least that was a real stuntman!

There are trailer screenshots here in TheRaider.net site that people can study and go over every detail.

http://www.theraider.net/films/indy4/gallery_teaser_01.php

I don't see what the big fuss is about, what little CGI I saw looked fine to me. It's 2008, in order for this movie to be decent there has to be CGI. It sounds like most of you complainers are desperately searching for something to criticise. For example, why on earth can't those natives be real people?

I'm sure some people will feel kinda stupid when we'll see some making of footage on the DVD next year and most of the effects people thought were CG turn out to be practical effects, models and pyrotechnics.

I really think that's the case... Some effects look CG because of the clean look of HD.

Of course, some of 'em will actually be CG.
It's 2008, folks. wake up and smell the... ehm... polygons.

HD doesn't really make it clean looking. Film is higher res than HD. When you transfer it over to HD you just get a closer representation of the film. Of course there maybe some kind of smoothing post going on after converting to digital.

Someone mentioned before on another thread, that a great deal of the South American jungle scenery in the trailer, looked like footage from Peter Jackson's King Kong. I think it does have a similar look, but not at all in a bad way. Like The Lord of the Rings films and King Kong, I think KOTCS will have a lot of extremely well meshed live action footage with CGI. I'm sure there will be some very obvious shots, but as a whole I think it will be pretty convincing! The trailer's CGI shots did jump out at me right away at the first viewing, but they do start to blend in the more you watch it.


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I thought the CG was excellent, the only thing that was CG that I could even notice was the two cars crashing/blowing up, other than that, I have no clue which parts are and aren't computer generated. Really looked good to me, the entire thing had a nice clean look to it. Excellent lighting I'd say.