Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - initial impressions and casual discussion

I completely forgot about the cemetery warrior whom Indy kills with his own poison dart until tonight's second viewing. That's a bloody and enjoyable bit. I also like the shot of the soldier's face covered by ants shortly before they eat him up/carry him away.

In general I gotta agree that blood, danger and ...especially a good major death scene were missing. Winstone's demise was one of the worst things about the film.

We have to face the reality that the 80s are yesteryear and there's a new generation and we're protecting them against gun violence. There was implied gun violence in KotCS, but it was a villain trademark.

I suppose I can appreciate this, as a father to young kids who love Indiana Jones, YIJC and all that. They're too impressionable for ToD, I think - but my older son has seen it.

There was some nice gruesome deaths though - the guys who were fried by the rocket, the blow dart to the throat, the ants.

ForbiddenEye said:

Who says he put them on pause? Archaelogists made great spies because they were famous and had great reputation. And they had reason to travel around the world.

They talked about that in this History Channel show called "Real Tomb Hunters" It was interesting.

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Being extremely well-versed (and having a degree) in anthropology and archaeology (yes, the films influenced me that much), I can tell you that archaeologists were NOT famous, and that the ones that were would have made terrible spies because of that fame. True, anthropologists in the field were often tapped to provide information to the US government, but very few archaeologists (in the real world, not Indy's) would be that useful seeing as how most archaeologists are confined to one particular dig site and are rarely speaking to as many people as say a cultural anthropologist.

Of course, history had some of those "Real Tomb Hunters" but very few would have fit all those criteria during the SECOND World War.

That being said, I'm not denying that Indy as a spy is plausible. I'm just saying I don't like him working for the US government so much when he is a much more interesting character as the rogue explorer.

Yep I agree with you guys! Thank you Harrison, Speilberg and Lucas for this film!! Harrison Ford you are my HERO!!

nitzsche said:

We have to face the reality that the 80s are yesteryear and there's a new generation and we're protecting them against gun violence. There was implied gun violence in KotCS, but it was a villain trademark.

I suppose I can appreciate this, as a father to young kids who love Indiana Jones, YIJC and all that. They're too impressionable for ToD, I think - but my older son has seen it.

There was some nice gruesome deaths though - the guys who were fried by the rocket, the blow dart to the throat, the ants.

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The ants were goofy because they looked so fake. The POTC movies were much more violent and dark than KOTCS, and little kids loved them.

I don't feel like Indiana went "soft."

I got the impression through Harrison's performance and from the conversation about his time in the OSS that the character had moved beyond the more violent aspects of his behavior - still reckless, sure. But the film makes clear to us that the indy we see is much more knowledgeable, grounded in his father's teachings, than he was at the end of Crusade.

And this difference doesn't matter to me. I feel like it's the logical continuation of the character. If I want to see Indy at the height of his violence I'll watch Raiders or TOD. If I want to see him learn and transition I'll watch TLC. If I want to see him impart this knowledge after coming full circle, I'll watch KOTCS. And obviously, many don't want to see this. It's clear that Jones can still kick ass, though. He has moved beyond the point of initiating the action, but if someone pushes, he'll push back.

"Are you still leaving a trail of human wreckage?" - Marion Ravenwood

A little bit.

And I forgot about the guys who got incinerated by the sled - I appreciated that.

Just saw KOTCS for the second time, this time with family. I enjoyed it both times, but more the second time. It was especially interesting watching the reactions of my parents, who are big fans of Raiders and had no idea of Marion's return or Mutt's connection to Indy.

My mother had an interesting point, in that she guessed that Marion would be in the story (and that Mutt was her son) at the point in the diner in which Indy tells him that he doesn't have to be so brave all the time. She said this clued her in because of a similar conversation that Indiana had with Marion in the first film. Any idea what conversation she is referring to?

I noticed two other things that added to the film for me:

? When Indy was translating the parchment, and Mutt asks him if he is 80 years old, Indy's reaction (which seems like anger at the comment diffused by interest in what he has in his hands) is very similar in performance to the moment in which his father takes a moment to show how the vase he smashed is a fake. Probably reading too much into it, but it made me smile.

? On first viewing, Marion landing the duck on the tree seemed really lucky. I was glad to see that although the moment is far fetched, its made more believable by the fact that she scopes out her options beforehand. Makes her seem slightly less insane.

Indy roswell history?

Witness who was blindfolded interigated or worked for area 51 and wasn't suposed to here about it...Sorry i'm a late boomer.

I think I may start to be coming towards a conclusion with my opinion on KOTCS. I think my initial reaction was denial, me thinking that 'yeah it wasn't great, but it was decent.' Now I am starting to think maybe it just flat out sucked (excpet for the great performances by Ford and Allan).

Let's face it, the first 12 minutes of Raiders has more danger, more thrills, more excitement, a greater sense of mystery, exotiness, and wonder than the entirity of KOTCS.

19 years since Last Crusade, and they can't even pack enough into an entire movie to equal the first 12 minutes of Raiders. That's pretty sad .

I think one of the biggest things that says a lot about the new movie for me is that I want Indiana Jones 5 NOW, and I honestly did not think I would. I thought I?d be happy for Kingdom to be the last one but I want another one please George, Steven and Harrison please make Indy 5.

NearlyNormalAnd said:

I really don't like that this movie felt the need to turn Indy not just into a hero, but a Real American Hero, who served faithfully in two wars, always at the beck and call of his country. If I want a Real American Hero in that sense, I'll watch G.I. Joe.

For me, Indy is not a toadie for the U.S. government or for any government, for that matter. He is a universal hero. I don't understand, nor do I appreciate, the need filmmakers seem to have lately to turn movie heroes into distinctly American heroes.

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So we should censor the fact that Indiana Jones is from America? What else did you expect him to do during WW2?

nitzsche said:

It was not a volunteer army - people were drafted. Ordinary people. And at the same time, Americans wanted to fight this war. Men felt it was their duty and were proud to contribute to the war effort. You think Indy hated the Nazis simply because they wanted to steal artifacts? No way.

In the full context of the character including all the films and the show, it makes perfect sense why he would be a military leader and spy.

Disregarding the YIJC (even though KotCS didn't) I would hope Indiana Jones wouldn't have turned his back on his country at a time of war. I mean - he loved killing Nazis.

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I have to admit, Indy working as a spy for the government would have been a helluva lot more interesting to see than the movie we got.

RocketSledFight said:

And I forgot about the guys who got incinerated by the sled - I appreciated that.

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That actually made me sit forward in my seat a little. I thought "wow, maybe Spielberg actually means business and is actually going to bring back that dark, gritty Raiders edge again."

But no... the movie proceeded to become as soft and family-friendly as your average Disney movie.

i liked it. it had its own feel jsut like the others did

still bummed, sad. I just don't get what happened.

Mind you, I'm not saying it was horrible, but I know that it's not because I'm 19 years older.

the movie just didn't have the magic.

Thanks, George. You and Steven are the main men that make it all happen. And Harrison, you were righteous too.

I was kinda underwhelmed my first time around. There was a lot to love, but quite frankly, it just didn't gel for me. However, I'm reading the novel, which is filling in all the gaps and I'm seeing how good a story it really is.

Anyway, it was simply great to have Indy back.

I can't wait for my second time. That will probably be better.



P.S. This is a great thread, and I thank you for starting it.

Young Indy said:

I as well loved it! Seen it twice and maybe again today if I can get my keys out of my locked car...

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I haven't seen it yet. I'm hiding your keys. You'll have to take me, too. j/k

I wish the jungle cutter had been used a bit better... it was destroyed right off the bat when I was convinced it was going to end up being the flying wing/rock grinder/tank sequence of this film. Surely thought Dovchenko was going to bite it in the blades... too bad, really.

Also, what would have been 100% better... Indy and Mutt get separated just as they do in the film, with the vines... (imagining the jungle cutter was NOT destroyed now) and Mutt drops from them onto it instead of SWINGING WITH THE MONKEYS WHO ALSO CONVENIENTLY HATE THE RUSSIANS.

Anyway... so we now have parallel fights... the two jeeps on the side of the cliff like in the finished film, and the Mutt VS (whomever) atop the jungle cutter. *fights ensue, Mutt begins to lose fight but miraculous indyfilm circumstances push (whomever) off the vehicle and into the path of the blades. COOL DEATH SCENE'd!* ... then Mutt takes control of the vehicle (with trial and error, of course... he's not a jungle cutter driver by trade) and bursts through the jungle into the path of Spalko's vehicle ultimately saving Indy and friends before they're pushed over the edge. "Whoa... whoa."

EDIT: Wow EvilDevo, started writing this post before yours was up. Our brain waves are aligned.

In the jungle chase, I was really hoping for some close calls with the jungle cutter. Like Indy hanging by his foot off the back of the jeep as the cutter closes in on him, the blades slicing a foot from his face, then climbing back in as the cutter starts devouring the jeep. Or SOMETHING like that. All we got was a few bouncing blades, that were not going to hurt anyone, as long as they simply ducked. Talk about a vehicle/prop that is ripe for derring-do stunts and close calls that was almost totally wasted.

All of the movies had "close calls" like this, except the new one didn't..unless you count Doom Town, but there, he just got lucky. I kind of understand the "no tension" complaints. There wasn't a single time like the boat being chopped up in LC, or going over the cliff on the tank, or barely outrunning the water in Temple, etc...something happening in real time in the middle of an action scene that threatened to squash/slice/kill Indy.