General Indy 5 Thread - rumors and possibilities

RedeemedChild said:

Ugh....Unbeliever. Oh, ye of little faith.

Like the scientist in the documentary "The Real Face of Jesus" conculded: some will never believe in that which they cannot explain because it is more than an act of knowing but rather an act of faith.

Most ture is the fact that in this great age of enlightenment there are those who have little to no faith at all.

Yesterday I saw a news report about a girl who was lost in a deadly, snake infested swamp in a certain part of Florida and the man who found her was moved to tears because he asked God to spare the child's life and he stated that God had led him directly to the lost youth. Even the police credited God with the girl's rescue, one of the officiers went on to state that "I've never believed in miracles until now."

So yes, you may choose to believe that the Shroud of Turin is a fake even in the face of science proving that it is real. However I would like to submit to you, Montana Smith that "The most real things are the things which we cannot see, the things which defy reason and logic and those which are beyond our grasp."

I think Spock put it best in the last JJ. Abrams Star Trek XI. "In this matter put aside logic and do what feels right."

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Hey I'm all for going back to the religious icons, and after all Indy met Pancho Villa chasing after dresses.It boils down to how it's done. No doubt a reason can be manufatured, but really Child, calling it a stained tea cloth or a fake is just as substantial as anything you've written...and Indy never had to believe to find value.

I guess what you've spurred are comments to motivate YOU to provide a REASON for Indy to give chase based on YOUR perception of the character, not YOUR faith. You may use your faith to fuel the story, but as you've outlined for the opposition this is an age where people have little or no faith. (was there NEVER such a time?) I guess YOU have to figure out a way to make it plausible, interesting but MOST importantly ENTERTAINING for the Indiana Jones fan.

One other thing Child, maybe couch your ministry in terms of Indiana Jones...tangents like the "Florida Swamp Story" really don't help, they just illustrate that some people have a limited capacity for education and prefer simple answers like "God did it".To me it's an extention of a weak and selfish mind that would blame the devil for his evil deeds and shirk responsibility.

RedeemedChild said:

Ugh....Unbeliever. Oh, ye of little faith.

Click to expand...

I pride myself on my lack of faith. It keeps me sane while all around people are falling over themselves carrying out strange practises in the name of some unseen and unproven entity.

RedeemedChild said:

Like the scientist in the documentary "The Real Face of Jesus" conculded: some will never believe in that which they cannot explain because it is more than an act of knowing but rather an act of faith.

Click to expand...

There are scientists motivated by the search for fact, and those motivated by other factors. Scientists are to be cross-examined just as strongly as the theologists. I would follow Indy's constant skeptical approach.

RedeemedChild said:

Most true is the fact that in this great age of enlightenment there are those who have little to no faith at all.

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The more the merrier.

RedeemedChild said:

Yesterday I saw a news report about a girl who was lost in a deadly, snake infested swamp in a certain part of Florida and the man who found her was moved to tears because he asked God to spare the child's life and he stated that God had led him directly to the lost youth. Even the police credited God with the girl's rescue, one of the officiers went on to state that "I've never believed in miracles until now."

Click to expand...

If this were God's work, then God is also guilty of a lot of tragedies.

RedeemedChild said:

So yes, you may choose to believe that the Shroud of Turin is a fake even in the face of science proving that it is real. However I would like to submit to you, Montana Smith that "The most real things are the things which we cannot see, the things which defy reason and logic and those which are beyond our grasp."

Click to expand...

Scientists are right now deep under the earth trying to prove the existence of dark matter. They suspect it's there because of the gravitational pull of objects, but they haven't found it yet. Science says it's there but we can't see it. Science does not say that God is there.

RedeemedChild said:

I think Spock put it best in the last JJ. Abrams Star Trek XI. "In this matter put aside logic and do what feels right."

Click to expand...

History and psychology are the educators. Through them the truth of things may be discerned. What if logic said that killing a person was wrong, yet I put that aside and do what feels right instead? That was how the popes used to conduct their wars.

When all is said and done, I've found my enjoyment of Indy movies increased many times since KOTCS revealed a Daenikan universe. Indy's world is much more fun and liberated without having to accept the existence of God, but rather to see multiple gods and supernatural entities.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Hey I'm all for going back to the religious icons, and after all Indy met Pancho Villa chasing after dresses.It boils down to how it's done. No doubt a reason can be manufatured, but really Child, calling it a stained tea cloth or a fake is just as substantial as anything you've written...and Indy never had to believe to find value.

I guess what you've spurred are comments to motivate YOU to provide a REASON for Indy to give chase based on YOUR perception of the character, not YOUR faith. You may use your faith to fuel the story, but as you've outlined for the opposition this is an age where people have little or no faith. (was there NEVER such a time?) I guess YOU have to figure out a way to make it plausible, interesting but MOST importantly ENTERTAINING for the Indiana Jones fan.

Click to expand...

Actually you've confused me a little bit Rocket. I don't get what you mean by "I guess what you've spurred are comments to motivate YOU to provide a REASON for Indy to give chase based on YOUR perception of the character not YOUR faith" I mean it's not so much my perception. When I watch History Channel things related to Indiana Jones are always on my mind. It is because of History Channel (Digging for the Truth: Josh Bernstein) that I became a deeper Indiana Jones fan.

As in regards to my faith. I've always looked at the world with an eye open to see how God works in the lives of mankind. I've always liked the concept of "mortals and devine beings."

From my earliest years I was taught to repect religion, faith, science and the aged and I've tried to never deviate from that. Howbeit I'm not perfect. I have my doubts, fears and shortcomings.

Rocet Surgeon said:

Hey I'm all for going back to the religious icons, and after all Indy met Pancho Villa chasing after dresses.It boils down to how it's done.

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LOL. Chasing dresses. Good one. BTW I hope you would not object to sending Indiana Jones on a "Dante's Inferno" quest to recover the lost Schyte of Dante. Nevermind the fanboys and their opposition to CGI. CGI is part of the way we manufature movies these days.

Rocket Surgeon said:

One other thing Child, maybe couch your ministry in terms of Indiana Jones...tangents like the "Florida Swamp Story" really don't help, they just illustrate that some people have a limited capacity for education and prefer simple answers like "God did it".To me it's an extention of a weak and selfish mind that would blame the devil for his evil deeds and shirk responsibility

Click to expand...

Rocket, it's not so much faith vs education. I, for one believe that Science and Faith both have there place. At times faith and science seem to clash (evolution) but then there are times when faith and science seem to merge.

Besides I don't think saying that Christians have a limited capacity for education is quite fair at all. Many Christians are among the most educated. Charles Dickens, Queen Victoria, Dr. John Dee, Princess Diana, JRR. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, E.G. White, John Nevins Andrews, Dwight K Nelson, C. Palodini, Mark Hall, Mel Gibson and many others who are Christians are educated. My family has a rich educational heirtage and my father is a professor and I, myself plan on continuing in the field of academics.

BTW I don't understand the latter part of your comment "To me it's an extention of a weak and selfish mind that would blame the devil for his evil deeds and shirk."

That sounds a bit like the ideology of John Milton in Paradise Lost.

Rocket Surgeon said:

Hey I'm all for going back to the religious icons, and after all Indy met Pancho Villa chasing after dresses.It boils down to how it's done. No doubt a reason can be manufatured, but really Child, calling it a stained tea cloth or a fake is just as substantial as anything you've written...and Indy never had to believe to find value.

I guess what you've spurred are comments to motivate YOU to provide a REASON for Indy to give chase based on YOUR perception of the character, not YOUR faith. You may use your faith to fuel the story, but as you've outlined for the opposition this is an age where people have little or no faith. (was there NEVER such a time?) I guess YOU have to figure out a way to make it plausible, interesting but MOST importantly ENTERTAINING for the Indiana Jones fan.

One other thing Child, maybe couch your ministry in terms of Indiana Jones...tangents like the "Florida Swamp Story" really don't help, they just illustrate that some people have a limited capacity for education and prefer simple answers like "God did it".To me it's an extention of a weak and selfish mind that would blame the devil for his evil deeds and shirk responsibility.

Click to expand...

Maybe I do have some faith. I have faith that Rocket will say something interesting!

I like the cut of your jib!

Now, if the Turin Shroud was stained cheesecloth, what kind of cheese would it be?

Montana Smith said:

I pride myself on my lack of faith. It keeps me sane while all around people are falling over themselves carrying out strange practises in the name of some unseen and unproven entity.



There are scientists motivated by the search for fact, and those motivated by other factors. Scientists are to be cross-examined just as strongly as the theologists. I would follow Indy's constant skeptical approach.



The more the merrier.



If this were God's work, then God is also guilty of a lot of tragedies.



Scientists are right now deep under the earth trying to prove the existence of dark matter. They suspect it's there because of the gravitational pull of objects, but they haven't found it yet. Science says it's there but we can't see it. Science does not say that God is there.



History and psychology are the educators. Through them the truth of things may be discerned. What if logic said that killing a person was wrong, yet I put that aside and do what feels right instead? That was how the popes used to conduct their wars.

When all is said and done, I've found my enjoyment of Indy movies increased many times since KOTCS revealed a Daenikan universe. Indy's world is much more fun and liberated without having to accept the existence of God, but rather to see multiple gods and supernatural entities.

Click to expand...

Firstly, I'd like to say that I like you Montana Smith. I like the way you think and I like and appreciate your opinions.

Montana Smith said:

I pride myself on my lack of faith. It keeps me sane while all around people are falling over themselves carrying out strange practises in the name of some unseen and unproven entity.

Scientists are to be cross-examined just as strongly as the theologists. I would follow Indy's constant skeptical approach.

Click to expand...

Well I understand how you feel. There are many religious groups with which I disagree precisely because they dive headlong into, as you said "strange customs and practises" in the name of religion. For example: cutting someone's hand off for stealing something that was supposed to be food for the gods? Ridulous. Abusing women because they are supposed to be less that a man? Because women are the source of all evil? I beg to differ. In my opinion woman are the most glorious out of all of God's creation.

Montana Jones said:

If this were God's work, then God is also guilty of a lot of tragedies.

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On this point I must disagree and here's why: "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace". 1 Corinthians 14:33. All of the evil, turmoil, pain and disorder in our world is becaue of one being; the fallen angel Lucifer. God is not the author of evil but of good. It was Satan who brought tragedy into our world. One day Scripture promises that God will judge Satan for all of the evil that he has wrought in this world.

Montana Smith said:

Scientists are right now deep under the earth trying to prove the existence of dark matter. They suspect it's there because of the gravitational pull of objects, but they haven't found it yet. Science says it's there but we can't see it. Science does not say that God is there.

Click to expand...

I must admit that I believe in Dark Matter. Why? Because from what Science has shown us it seems that the theories regarding Dark Matter are true. Besides there is much evidence to support the idea of Dark Matter. BTW Science has said in a way that God exist. According to Brian Greene God, Heaven and divine beings exist in a Parallel dimension, namely the 11th dimension. For more on this visit: http://www.pbs.org/nova/elegant, http://www.web-books.com/GoodPost/Articles/SeeGod.htm, http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/xdimgod.html#NdX5eo0HiDa9

Montana Smith said:

History and psychology are the educators. Through them the truth of things may be discerned. What if logic said that killing a person was wrong, yet I put that aside and do what feels right instead? That was how the popes used to conduct their wars.

When all is said and done, I've found my enjoyment of Indy movies increased many times since KOTCS revealed a Daenikan universe. Indy's world is much more fun and liberated without having to accept the existence of God, but rather to see multiple gods and supernatural entities.

Click to expand...

As far as I'm concerned the popes are not the ture representation of God on Earth. Hence the Protestant Reformation set us free from the cruel reign on the Vactican in the Dark Ages. Even today Rome is misrepresenting God through it's sexural abuse of children by the corrupt clergyman of the church.

As for when to utilize logic and when not to, your own conscience should guide you in that regards. The mind was given man along with a conscience to help us make good moral decisions. Again as Star Trek illustrates over and over again there are times to use logic and times when we should do what we know is the morally right thing to do. Nevertheless I do belive God wants us as human beings to be reasonable and rational creatures of intellect and that is why out of all the Star Trek characters Spock is my personal favorite. Anyway lets get back to the discussion of Indiana Jones V.

Is this going to transform into yet <b>another</b> religious debate?
*Sigh*

Lonsome_Drifter said:

Is this going to transform into yet <b>another</b> religious debate?
*Sigh*

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Forgive him, he knows not what he does...

No thread drift please.

To speculate on the potential religious nature of the sequel's MacGuffin, continue here.

Edit: Oops, that one's closed. Well, take your pick.

Moedred said:

No thread drift please.

To speculate on the potential religious nature of the sequel's MacGuffin, continue here.

Edit: Oops, that one's closed. Well, take your pick.

Click to expand...

Thanks Moedred.

I miss these boards...

I've been in quite a few religious debates over at He-Man.org and the Mattel forums, but at least in regards to INdy, they are somewhat topical.

In any event, I'm chomping for any news on Indy 5. It simply must happen!

Uki said:

I miss these boards...

I've been in quite a few religious debates over at He-Man.org and the Mattel forums, but at least in regards to INdy, they are somewhat topical.

In any event, I'm chomping for any news on Indy 5. It simply must happen!

Click to expand...

Yeah, these debates can be fun, though they never come to any conclusion, and as Moedred said this isn't the place for it. I knew that before it began, but sometimes things here become inevitable.

The nature of 'God' in Indy's world is even more topical after KOTCS, and may play a part in what might occur in Indy V. The memory of the Ark remained strong with Indy with him seeing it on the wall of the catacomb in Venice (LC) and broken out of its crate in KOTCS.

The reappearance of the Ark in three Indy movies is evidence that these are not four unrelated movies, but part of one growing story. Therefore, Indy isn't going to forget that he's met strange beings in Akator who have had a long history with man, and helped the development of human civilization. Lucas and Spielberg may want to leave 'aliens' behind, after the storm of controversy their inclusion created, but like the Ark there ought to be at least some reference to their existence in the next film (likely a tongue in cheek one).

Montana Smith said:

Yeah, these debates can be fun, though they never come to any conclusion, and as Moedred said this isn't the place for it. I knew that before it began, but sometimes things here become inevitable.

The nature of 'God' in Indy's world is even more topical after KOTCS, and may play a part in what might occur in Indy V. The memory of the Ark remained strong with Indy with him seeing it on the wall of the catacomb in Venice (LC) and broken out of its crate in KOTCS.

The reappearance of the Ark in three Indy movies is evidence that these are not four unrelated movies, but part of one growing story. Therefore, Indy isn't going to forget that he's met strange beings in Akator who have had a long history with man, and helped the development of human civilization. Lucas and Spielberg may want to leave 'aliens' behind, after the storm of controversy their inclusion created, but like the Ark there ought to be at least some reference to their existence in the next film (likely a tongue in cheek one).

Click to expand...

Montana Smith I'm sorry if I offended you in any way yesterday. It is not my desire to offend any one. I like you quite a lot Montana.

I do like religious debate, however I don't like arguing for the sake of plain argument but I rather discuss things in a theological sense, hence I enjoy things like Star Wars which talk about the "Force" which Lucas has admited is his reference to God in the Star Wars saga and things like Transformers which talk about the "Allspark" and of course His Dark Materials and Narnia. So I hope you understand that I was not trying to toss you for a nasty spin and if I came off that way I am very sorry Montana Smith. As the little thief told Jafar in Aladdin "a thousand apologies."

Nevertheless out of all the Indiana Jones movies The Last Crusade is my favorite, but I still jostle with it for dominance for Raiders of the Lost Ark because that was one spectacular ride, it simply cannot be ignored. Now as for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull; I think that the Crystal Skull itself is a perfect MacGuffin to carry into the next movie because it simply was not fully explained nor exploited in the last movie at all and I was left hanging on a merciless cliff at a frightful height at the end of KOTCS and I'd like to see more of the Crystal Skull if possible. Still I'd like to see Indiana Jones chasing Genies to. Man, Shantae, Aladdin, Arabian Nights and I Dream of Jeannie really have me excited for Genies!

RedeemedChild said:

Montana Smith I'm sorry if I offended you in any way yesterday. It is not my desire to offend any one. I like you quite a lot Montana.

I do like religious debate, however I don't like arguing for the sake of plain argument but I rather discuss things in a theological sense, hence I enjoy things like Star Wars which talk about the "Force" which Lucas has admited is his reference to God in the Star Wars saga and things like Transformers which talk about the "Allspark" and of course His Dark Materials and Narnia. So I hope you understand that I was not trying to toss you for a nasty spin and if I came off that way I am very sorry Montana Smith. As the little thief told Jafar in Aladdin "a thousand apologies."

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Thank you, RC. I didn't take offence. Sometimes there's a button to push, and I just can't help myself: I just have to push that button!

There are things that we will never agree on, and that's fine. Your optimism and faith is in equal measure to my cynicism and lack of faith! I too enjoy the back and forth of a heated debate, but I understand this isn't the thread for that.

RedeemedChild said:

Nevertheless out of all the Indiana Jones movies The Last Crusade is my favorite, but I still jostle with it for dominance for Raiders of the Lost Ark because that was one spectacular ride, it simply cannot be ignored. Now as for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull; I think that the Crystal Skull itself is a perfect MacGuffin to carry into the next movie because it simply was not fully explained nor exploited in the last movie at all and I was left hanging on a merciless cliff at a frightful height at the end of KOTCS and I'd like to see more of the Crystal Skull if possible. Still I'd like to see Indiana Jones chasing Genies to. Man, Shantae, Aladdin, Arabian Nights and I Dream of Jeannie really have me excited for Genies!

Click to expand...

Yeah, you have a thing for genies right now! Just be careful what you polish, and then be extra careful what you wish for!

While we have rumours that Indy V will happen at some point, we can dream about what possibilities will be realized. The Inter-Dimensionals have opened up Indy's world with new possibilities, though, as I wrote before, I don't think Spielberg and Lucas will revisit them. However, having opened up the world to show that it is visited by unexpected powerful entities (which Temple of Doom also did), we could see Indy faced with other elder gods, as with Lovecraft's Cthulhu mythos.

The adventure could take place either in the wilderness, so that the 1960s period isn't as overtly present as the 1950s were in KOTCS, or it could be in and beneath a city.

I received this roleplaying book yesterday:

http://www.chaosium.com/article.php?story_id=145

which was an impulse buy, as it's full of 1920s maps of New York above and below ground (both real and fictitious), and the sort of thing I can imagine Indy getting his teeth into...

Perhaps being that George Lucas is in admiration of what James Cameron has done with Avatar we can expect Lucas and Spielberg to do with the next Indiana Jones movie.

It is highly logical. We've had a string of such movies back to back almost. There has been Wall-E, Day After Tomorrow, 2012, The Day The Earth Stood Still (remake) and then Avatar, all with moral and environmental messages. Then there is the word on the web that National Treasure 3 will carry a environmental message. Perhaps Indiana Jones V will also carry a similar message?

RedeemedChild said:

Perhaps being that George Lucas is in admiration of what James Cameron has done with Avatar we can expect Lucas and Spielberg to do with the next Indiana Jones movie.

It is highly logical. We've had a string of such movies back to back almost. There has been Wall-E, Day After Tomorrow, 2012, The Day The Earth Stood Still (remake) and then Avatar, all with moral and environmental messages. Then there is the word on the web that National Treasure 3 will carry a environmental message. Perhaps Indiana Jones V will also carry a similar message?

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Indy can go back to the Peruvian jungle, only this time he's there to save the rain forest!

Montana Smith said:

Indy can go back to the Peruvian jungle, only this time he's there to save the rain forest!

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Indeed. That sounds like good par for the course Montana!

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/james-cameron-defends-amazon-04-15-2010

RedeemedChild said:

Indeed. That sounds like good par for the course Montana!

http://thecelebritycafe.com/feature/james-cameron-defends-amazon-04-15-2010

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He'd be caught between the environment and the people who need to live in it. Maybe this sort of moral dilemma to too real for an Indy movie, where escapism has always been key.

I'm all for Indy in the wilderness, but I'd like to see some creepy menace waiting for him. Something Lovecraftian that's going to really challenge him.

Montana Smith said:

He'd be caught between the environment and the people who need to live in it. Maybe this sort of moral dilemma to too real for an Indy movie, where escapism has always been key.

I'm all for Indy in the wilderness, but I'd like to see some creepy menace waiting for him. Something Lovecraftian that's going to really challenge him.

Click to expand...

Well I'm sure that it could be crafted in such a way that the villain (the big boss) behind the villains could be a supernatural villain, perhaps a visitor from space (Kingdom of the Crystal Skull has opened this door) who is determined to harm the inhabitants of Earth and is destroying rainforest and other natural resources to his own design because he reason's that the end justifies the means. Therefore the people of the land have called upon Indiana Jones to aid them and recover their most cherished artifact the Heart of Peruvian Jungle which is the fangs of a Jaguar.

Now Indiana Jones going up against an alien force face to face? That's something different.

RedeemedChild said:

Well I'm sure that it could be crafted in such a way that the villain (the big boss) behind the villains could be a supernatural villain, perhaps a visitor from space (Kingdom of the Crystal Skull has opened this door) who is determined to harm the inhabitants of Earth and is destroying rainforest and other natural resources to his own design because he reason's that the end justifies the means. Therefore the people of the land have called upon Indiana Jones to aid them and recover their most cherished artifact the Heart of Peruvian Jungle which is the fangs of a Jaguar.

Now Indiana Jones going up against an alien force face to face? That's something different.

Click to expand...

What a fantastic idea! Kudos, friend. An excellent premise.

kongisking said:

What a fantastic idea! Kudos, friend. An excellent premise.

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Yet it would negate the fact that it is man who is the real enemy of nature.

Which is why I think Indy should just go whip Cthulhu's big green butt, after tackling hordes of possessed cultists. A sinister change of pace after KOTCS.