Did the action scenes disappoint?

graz said:

The thing for me is, movies have changed alot since Raiders. I love those old style effects and stunts, and in an ideal world CGI wouldn't exist for me. I'm not the future audience for these films though, my kids are, and they are growing up to EXPECT fancy CGI enhanced special effects. Hence they think Raiders is a bit boring and KOTCS is one of the best movies they have seen.

I think Speilberg and Lucas have had a precarious balancing act to perform with KOTCS to appeal across the generations, and, compared to the level of CGI in such as the Star Wars prequels, I think they suceeded in bridging the gap pretty successfully (its just an opinion though obviously...)

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I think you are correct...

Well, as I've said before, I don't think the problem with KINGDOM is actual CGI. I think the problem is the overall sheen that Kaminski's cinematography brings... it lessens the "real feel" and overall makes the whole film feel like it was processed through a computer. Shots that don't even have overt effects work still look like they do.

If I could change anything about KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, it would be the cinematography.

Darth Vile said:

So I can only think its blind enthusiasm for the movie that would lead anyone to defend the effects in TOD over KOTCS.

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Yeah it must be blind enthusiasm and not say, the oscar, or the fact that KOTCS looks like a videogame.

Quickening said:

Yeah it must be blind enthusiasm and not say, the oscar, or the fact that KOTCS looks like a videogame.

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Congratulations for completely circumnavigating the actual point. That's like using box office figures to state that KOTCS is the best Indy movie. Also - the visual effects in the movie '2010' were far superior than TOD... but what did '2010' win?

Big box office figures do not mean a movie is good, but it does mean it is popular.

Travis85 said:

Big box office figures do not mean a movie is good, but it does mean it is popular.

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Of course... but you could never use it as an argument for quality per se.

Darth Vile said:

Congratulations for completely circumnavigating the actual point. That's like using box office figures to state that KOTCS is the best Indy movie. Also - the visual effects in the movie '2010' were far superior than TOD... but what did '2010' win?

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Just as a matter of personal taste, I have to disagree. I saw 2010 recently under the best home theater conditions imaginable, and both myself and my host were underwhelmed by the quality of most of the FX. Purely in terms of my personal taste, I have to give TOD a leg-up over 2010.

Filmphoenix said:

No but there is:
CGI monkeys= but bad miniature, rafts falling from the sky without people when they should be there (not even a dummy in sight that sound kinda lazy to me) clearly blue screen shots, a boy falling into a train car with fake snake and other fake animals, melting people that don't look real ect..

tarzan sene= a boy who as far as the audience knows never used a wipe but not only be able to crack the wipe, which takes a lot of practice itself, but hold off a lion in a small space (much harder to do than swing from vines in the amazon rain forest and just as believable).

no fridge= Just people having their hearts removed and remain alive.


no Mac, no Ox,= Willie Scott enough said here.

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I love the voodoo aspects of ToD, they fit perfectly with what the series established was possible after the Ark opening. The fridge is just goofy and stupid. The tarzan scene looked stupid, but the young Indy scenes did not. Those CGI monkeys looked extremely fake, even the vines looked extremely faked. It was just an idiotic scene that had no plot purpose,, that was put in to pander to small children. The melting people are some of the best special effects ever and look very convincing since they are done with practical effects. Willie Scott is far better than Mac and Ox. At least Willie Scott doesn't ramble on in jibberish and hold out the crystal skull whenever trouble arrives, which causes Ox to look like a moron. All Mac says is Jones or Jonesy.

I'm getting tired of people degrading the OT, in order to make KOTCS look better.

agentsands77 said:

Well, as I've said before, I don't think the problem with KINGDOM is actual CGI. I think the problem is the overall sheen that Kaminski's cinematography brings... it lessens the "real feel" and overall makes the whole film feel like it was processed through a computer. Shots that don't even have overt effects work still look like they do.

If I could change anything about KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, it would be the cinematography.

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The cinematography is so bad in KOTCS, it makes the waterfalls look fake. Spielberg has really bad taste in cinematographers nowdays.

agentsands77 said:

Well, as I've said before, I don't think the problem with KINGDOM is actual CGI. I think the problem is the overall sheen that Kaminski's cinematography brings... it lessens the "real feel" and overall makes the whole film feel like it was processed through a computer. Shots that don't even have overt effects work still look like they do.

If I could change anything about KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, it would be the cinematography.

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I agree 100%!

MolaRam2 said:

The cinematography is so bad in KOTCS, it makes the waterfalls look fake. Spielberg has really bad taste in cinematographers nowdays.

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It's another example of the film-makers making no effort to fulfill their promises. Why tell us all that Kaminski would adopt the style of Slocombe when he had no intention of doing so? They'd have been better off keeping their mouth's shut.

Did the action dissapoint? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!

The Jungle Chase is the most thrilling, funny and slam-bang rollicking good time of the last few years. Even the Champion Crane Chase, until now my pick for greatest chase sequence in movie history, doesn't match this. The chase ruled, and it was awesome seeing Indy kick ass again. What do you mean, 'tag along'? Wink-wink...

Mutt's duel with Spalko is a buffet of incredible stunts, one-liners, gags and such that kept me grinning like a nimrod for minutes on end. A definite highlight, and the scene that firmly cemented my love and support for Mutt Williams. BRING ON THAT SPIN-OFF, LUCAS!!!

Indy's fight with Dovchenko was brilliantly done. The idea of them fighting within a ring of bloodthirsty critters is unique and thrilling. The blows being thrown here are brutal and look painful-as-hell. To top it off, the good Colonel receives a truly disturbing and gross demise, as well he should for being such a badass villain. He's like a Russain Vogel, by far the toughest and meanest Nazi. Those ants will give me the shivers until doomsday. I especially adore the last beat before Dov topples over senseless. Indy's ready to punch him again, and then notices how dazed and limp the Colonel is, and then just lets him fall over into the ants! LOVE IT.

And so the hell what if the carnivorous ants was a blatant rip-off of Scorpion King? So the hell what if Mac is note-for-note Beni Gabor? Remember, the Mummy series is much more guilty of obvious steals from Indy. Indy's just returning the favor, and by doing so also strengthening the relationship between both series, to my great delight.

The motorcycle chase was great fun, and as previously mentioned by my esteemed fellow posters boasts a genuine classic Indy stunt. Awesome scene, with a nice wrap-up involving Marcus Brody. Even in death, Marcus is still around to help out his best bud Indy.

But this all bows before what has to be the coolest and most frakkin' awesome scene in all Indydom: the knockout teaser in Hangar 51 and the proceeding 'Nuke the Fridge' stunt. Chock full of awesome lines, great Indy smart-assness, Spalko acting sexy with her turn-on accent, the cameo by the Ark, the ingenious way Indy finds the location of the Roswell crate, Indy and Dovchenko duking it out on and around the rocket sled (especially Indy swinging and kicking the Colonel through the glass ), Indy falling off the sled with dizziness...I can go on forever. And DON'T get me started on the iconic "A Dynamite Stick in a Nuclear Age" shot, cause I'll never shut up about it.

So many other great action moments: the suitably corny and unbelievable "three times it drops" scene, the Ugha bursting from within the walls of the temple, the dissapearing stairs (my favorite setpiece of Act III), the cool Council of Thirteen chamber, the skeletons morphing into a living being (for the last goddamn time, they are NOT aliens!!!!!!! WAKE UP! You can stop whining now!!!), the UFO rising from the collapsing city below...I love every millisecond of it!

So, once again for you stubborn nitwits that didn't hear me the first time: Did the action dissapoint? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!

The Man said:

It's another example of the film-makers making no effort to fulfill their promises. Why tell us all that Kaminski would adopt the style of Slocombe when he had no intention of doing so? They'd have been better off keeping their mouth's shut.

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Good advice!

MolaRam2 said:

I love the voodoo aspects of ToD, they fit perfectly with what the series established was possible after the Ark opening. The fridge is just goofy and stupid.

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Your opinion, not mine. If your idea of something not goofy and not stupid is a wittle Indy voodoo doll with jacket and hat + black sleep of Khali - well enough said.

MolaRam2 said:

I'm getting tired of people degrading the OT, in order to make KOTCS look better.

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To coin the same phrase... I'm getting tired of people larging up the OT, in order to pick holes in KOTCS.

Darth Vile said:

To coin the same phrase... I'm getting tired of people larging up the OT, in order to pick holes in KOTCS.

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Quite right, especially when KOTCS has enough holes already in it (large enough to drive a truck through) so that you don't have to "large up" the OT.

Darth Vile said:

Your opinion, not mine. If your idea of something not goofy and not stupid is a wittle Indy voodoo doll with jacket and hat + black sleep of Khali - well enough said.

To coin the same phrase... I'm getting tired of people larging up the OT, in order to pick holes in KOTCS.

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As I said before, the voodoo elements of ToD fit in perfectly with what was established with the end of Raiders. ToD dug further into the supernatural, and that is why I love it. LC avoided the supernatural until the very end, but I still love that film also. The Black Sleep of Kali is an excellent plot device, as it explains how Mola Ram got so many people under the spell of Kali. ToD has you so caught up in the conveyor belt fight and Short Round fighting the Maharajah, that the film isn't in your face with the voodoo doll's appearance.


I wanted to love KOTCS, I went in trying to ignore it's flaws, but I can't it's just too poor of a film. I desperately want a 4th Indy film that I can add to what I consider cannon. KOTCS is a very poor and lazily made film IMO. It felt like Spielberg just didn't care and wanted to get the paycheck. There was no emotion, no suspense, no tension, and no danger. It's a dull lifeless film. Even William's score was lame, and the lighting was horrificly bright.

The CGI monkeys aren't some brief distraction, they are very in your face, and they sent the movie directly into CGI cutesy kiddie territory and the film stays there for most of the rest of it's running time. The Tarzan scene, didn't come and go, it had to continue to be annoying by having the very, very fake looking monkeys attack Spalko. Then quickly followed by the cartoon ants that only really threaten the villians.

Yeah, Marion should have definitely been killed by the cartoon antz in order for the audience to really understand they were dangerous. It was a stupid move to only have the bad guys die in the middle of the movie.

nitzsche said:

Yeah, Marion should have definitely been killed by the cartoon antz in order for the audience to really understand they were dangerous. It was a stupid move to only have the bad guys die in the middle of the movie.

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Or maybe they should have just added some tension. You know, like in good action adventure films in case you've never seen one or don't understand what makes them good.

Yeah, cuz the first guy getting swarmed by the cartoon antz, Spalko hanging from the vine, Indy inches from the cartoon antz reaching for the log... none of it was tense. They should have had Indy's legs fall past the power the skull was extending and be eaten to the bone by the cartoon antz... then Sallah should have ridden up on a horse and saved Indy just before the cartoon antz got to his crotch.

nitzsche said:

Yeah, cuz the first guy getting swarmed by the cartoon antz, Spalko hanging from the vine, Indy inches from the cartoon antz reaching for the log... none of it was tense. They should have had Indy's legs fall past the power the skull was extending and be eaten to the bone by the cartoon antz... then Sallah should have ridden up on a horse and saved Indy just before the cartoon antz got to his crotch.

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Nice.