Did the action scenes disappoint?

[nitzsche]

Or how about you turn on your brain instead of trying to make smart-ass comments to cover how poorly thought out what you're saying is?
In Raiders of the Lost Ark did we see the submarine submerge? No. Was it left open ended? Yes. What is opinion about that exactly? Unless you have a different copy of Raiders to everyone else on Earth.

It was left open-ended, that's why I interpret what happened as Indy riding on the back of a dolphin and fighting sharks in a very tense scene.

 

[Peacock's-Eye]

Yawn.


Don't think you can come here and lecture me, bucko.


You make your own problems. But you are terribly amusing, I give you that much.


Now **** off.

Oops, sorry:
http://www.kidsdomain.com/brain/computer/surfing/netiquette_kids.html

 

[Gear]

I agree. To me KotCS was sort of a ruff draft of it's own script. I think there was a TON of potential in this film but it was never carved out. I think the warehouse/A-bomb escape was a truely awsome piece and I'd have to add the motorcycle chase in there too but the rest was ruff.

All-in-all I think it was a good film but after 19 years I think it should have been better.

 

[Agent Spalko]

Ha ha. You're a joke!

What's funny is the fact that right after I mentioned how people who feel the most threatened by the opinions of others have to turn their arguments into personal vendettas, here comes Stoo bringing up our old argument again that has no relevance to what we are talking about because he can't stop stooing over the fact that the scene doesn't work, is problematic, and was ultimately discarded for being too unbelievable. It's too bad Spielberg didn't use that kind of good judgment when editing this film and discarded the entire Nuke The Fridge sequence for being just as ridiculous.

 

[Stoo]

He/she is also right so what are you talking about?

Did you read the debate?

Until Spucas restores the scene of Indy riding the periscope

It's Spielberg's movie, not Lucas'. Get it straight, Spalky!

What's funny is the fact that right after I mentioned how people who feel the most threatened by the opinions of others have to turn their arguments into personal vendettas, here comes Stoo bringing up our old argument again that has no relevance to what we are talking about because he can't stop stooing over the fact that the scene doesn't work, is problematic, and was ultimately discarded for being too unbelievable.

In no way am I put off/threatened by yours (or anyone else's) opnion of "Skulls". I didn't think it was that great either but don't hate it.
I rarely discuss opinions on this board because they don't really matter to me. I like facts and info and haven't been particpating in the
discussions re: the new film.

You obviously love the original trilogy so why don't you talk about that instead of intentionally (by your own admission) trying to "**** people off"?
If you're going to mention someone "stooing over the fact that the scene doesn't work", then you, my dear, are the most guilty culprit.
1200+ posts in 1.5 months with 95% talking about a movie you despise? (I post quite often and it's taken my 3 years to reach that amount).
Sad, sad, sad...

Anyway, we have no idea why the periscope scene was left out and if anyone wants to comment on that, let's do it in the other thread...
Most Unbelievable Indy Scene of all-Time!

Now, did the action scenes disappoint? The jungle chase focused too much on Mutt and I kept wondering, "Where the hell is Indy?"

 

[Crusade>Raiders]

Why can't we Indy fans just all get along

 

[Quickening]

Did you read the debate?

Indeed I did and without wishing to resume the debate here I'll just say that the general public aren't going to know about a scene from a comic book or know that a certains scene was filmed and cut. Like Spalko said it was cut for a reason and the sheer implausibility of it seems good enough. It's true that there was an order to dive but again, how many film goers (barring the German ones) are going to know that or even remember it?

Why can't we Indy fans just all get along

We all love Indy too much and in different ways

 

[MolaRam2]

I think the "popcorn movie" excuse is a bad one. The Indy series has never been Saving Private Ryan, but the OT is a lot more than simple "popcorn movies." The OT deals with real history (Nazis did look for religious artifacts, the Thugee cult was a real cult), things people actually beleve in (the OT dealt with topics that many people still believe, there aren't any Thugees left that we know of, but plenty of Hindus), and real emotion and characters (father-son relationship in LC, Indy's character arc in ToD, the similarities b/w Belloq and Indy). There is depth in the OT, many people choose to overlook it though.

A "popcorn movie" is Tranformers. That is just 2 hours of stuff blowing up with no real purpose behind the film or any of it's characters.

 

[Darth Vile]

I think the "popcorn movie" excuse is a bad one. The Indy series has never been Saving Private Ryan, but the OT is a lot more than simple "popcorn movies." The OT deals with real history (Nazis did look for religious artifacts, the Thugee cult was a real cult), things people actually beleve in (the OT dealt with topics that many people still believe, there aren't any Thugees left that we know of, but plenty of Hindus), and real emotion and characters (father-son relationship in LC, Indy's character arc in ToD, the similarities b/w Belloq and Indy). There is depth in the OT, many people choose to overlook it though.

A "popcorn movie" is Tranformers. That is just 2 hours of stuff blowing up with no real purpose behind the film or any of it's characters.

Star Wars and Raiders are the definitive "popcorn movies". Why pretend they are something that they are not? I think they are well made, they set the bar as far as modern action/adventure movies are concerned and they are an integral part of my (and many others) childhood. I think KOTCS follows the template of Raiders pretty well.

If there is an issue, it's that KOTCS follows that template too well... in that it feels closer to an action movie of the 1980's than it does to an action movie of the early 21st century. Fact is that cinema has moved on and that at the moment, a large section of the audience either wants dumbed down wall to wall action (read The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man), or they want gritty action with a documentary/back to basics feel (read Jason Bourne, Batman Begins and Casino Royale). I think that's the bit where there is a disparity between what Spielberg delivered, and what some of the market audience wanted...

 

[Agent Z]

Kingdom deals with loss, aging, and a sense of family. I enjoyed the poignant moments, including Indy's scene at his desk and how he was lamenting about life taking things away from him.

I don't know why, but Kingdom, despite all the silly over the top comic book moments, resonated with me more emotionally in some cases than the other films. Perhaps because it didn't try to beat me over the head with the subtext? Maybe.

The interplay between Indy and Mutt searching the gravesite? Granted, it's about exposition and some nice set design, but I enjoyed it more to see Indy and Mutt working together, watching their bond forming over the common link that was the thrill of discovery.

I really enjoyed pretty much any and all scenes with Mutt and Indy. There's a chemistry there that can't be mistaken.

The first scene between Indy and Marion was great, just how I always imagined it actually. That they got back in good graces with one another so quickly did seem a little too easy, but the wedding came off as very sweet and playful.

The quicksand/snake/rope scene? It shouldn't work. It's silly. And yet, it ends up being perfect, because we are buying the characters, not the situation. The entire scene gets major laughs and scattered applause every time I see it.

I'll say that all the little "human" touches hit me and made me laugh and smile as much as I did when I saw Raiders some 27 years ago. Seeing the film through much older eyes perhaps helped me in that regard.

Kingdom follows the formula just as much as the other films. There's historical context in the Commie/psychic research link, as well as the crystal skulls. References to the time period...the flavor and textures...are also included.

Spalko is based on that pulp vibe, but damn if she isn't a more engaging presence than Belloq who, more often than not, was just the annoying kid of the class who had the cheat sheet for the test ahead of time. I like my villains to get their hands dirty, damnit.

I know Kingdom doesn't hit all the marks it set out to, but I think it's a decent balance of popcorn thrills, mixed with some nice emotional moments.

Hey, I'm apologizing in advance for this ramble. I've been working on a rewrite, of sorts, for Kingdom and I'm all over the map.

 

[The Man]

Yeah, like there's nothing "dumb" in the others:
RotLA: the monkey going "uh-oh", and giving the Hitler salute. Marion with the frying pan. Indy's big submarine ride - wheee!!!
TOD: Short Round. The gross-out dinner. Willie's whining. Slapstick humor.
LC: The circus train. The fat boyscout. Indy's face when Elsa is nibbling his ear. Hitler's autograph. Deadly swarms of - wait for it - seagulls. The Nazi airplane in the underpass.

Yeah, those are regular Bergman films.
Shakespearian tragedies of the highest order.

If you genuinely believe absolutely everything you've listed above constitutes "dumb", then perhaps the originals are wasted on you. Seriously.

 

[Peacock's-Eye]

If you genuinely believe absolutely everything you've listed above constitutes "dumb", then perhaps the originals are wasted on you. Seriously.

They are are completely stupid, aimed at the most general audience members & youngsters. Put in only for fun. And I still enjoy them, as cartoonish & silly as they are. It is pure entertainment - it's Ok to have a cherry on your sundae.

 

[Crusade>Raiders]

I can't STAND the monkey in Raiders. Seriously, I hate every scene he's in. I almost cheered when he died.

Also, it is pretty silly when Marion smacks th gy with the frying pan, complete with Loony Toons sound effects.

 

[Darth Vile]

If you genuinely believe absolutely everything you've listed above constitutes "dumb", then perhaps the originals are wasted on you. Seriously.

I doubt anyone here truly dislikes Raiders, TOD and LC. I think, like me, people are using the silly/absurd moments in the other movies to make a point i.e. that absurdities/plot holes/ over the top visual effects are not exclusive to KOTCS. I agree that the Indy movies are "dumb", but not in a negative sense, but in that they don't hold up to too much scrutiny... but that doesn't mean that they are not brilliant or that one doesn't enjoy/love them or remember them with fondness (nostalgia).

 

[Crusade>Raiders]

Movies like The Matrix, Back to the Future, Total Recall, etc. are the ultimate popcorn films to me. The films that are "dumb" and aren't winning any Oscars, but the kind that are well-written, well-acted, and overall a great production that you enjoy for 2 hours. To pretend that Indy isn't a summer popcorn movie(as great as it is), well thats just foolish.

 

[MolaRam2]

Star Wars and Raiders are the definitive "popcorn movies". Why pretend they are something that they are not? I think they are well made, they set the bar as far as modern action/adventure movies are concerned and they are an integral part of my (and many others) childhood. I think KOTCS follows the template of Raiders pretty well.

If there is an issue, it's that KOTCS follows that template too well... in that it feels closer to an action movie of the 1980's than it does to an action movie of the early 21st century. Fact is that cinema has moved on and that at the moment, a large section of the audience either wants dumbed down wall to wall action (read The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man), or they want gritty action with a documentary/back to basics feel (read Jason Bourne, Batman Begins and Casino Royale). I think that's the bit where there is a disparity between what Spielberg delivered, and what some of the market audience wanted...

I would have liked nothing more than KOTCS to be an 1980s style action movie, but it doesn't begin to feel that way. Since when did 1980s action movies have flying fridges?

I would never call the OT "dumb." To me calling a movie "dumb" is a tremendous insult to the movie. Just because the OT, isn't Citizen Kane, doesn't mean that they aren't "intelligent" movies.

I felt no chemistry b/w Mutt and Indy BTW.

 

[Peacock's-Eye]

I would have liked nothing more than KOTCS to be an 1980s style action movie, but it doesn't begin to feel that way. Since when did 1980s action movies have flying fridges?

I would never call the OT "dumb." To me calling a movie "dumb" is a tremendous insult to the movie. Just because the OT, isn't Citizen Kane, doesn't mean that they aren't "intelligent" movies.

I felt no chemistry b/w Mutt and Indy BTW.

Certain elements were "dumb", not the movies.

 

[CasualJeff]

I would have liked nothing more than KOTCS to be an 1980s style action movie, but it doesn't begin to feel that way. Since when did 1980s action movies have flying fridges?

Since when did 80's action movies have mine cart chases or guys being dragged by trucks? I can only think of one...

Just because it has a unique action sequence doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't live up to its old-school action movie roots.

I would never call the OT "dumb." To me calling a movie "dumb" is a tremendous insult to the movie. Just because the OT, isn't Citizen Kane, doesn't mean that they aren't "intelligent" movies.

You sound just like a "gusher" when somebody insults KotCS. Why take somebody's criticism of a movie so seriously?

I'll be honest. I think Temple of Doom is a dumb movie. I respect its place in the Indy series, and I respect it's uniqueness compared to LC and KotCS. And sure, it has some fun scenes here and there, and the Indy character itself is fine in the movie. But overall, I Just think it's a dumb movie. Dumb sidekicks, dumb action sequences, dumb comedy. I'm not trying to tongue-in-cheekly bash the OT to justify my satisfaction with KotCS--this is honestly my opinion. And I don't see why this is so much worse than you and everybody else on this forum bashing KotCS.

At least I only bash ToD occassionally. I don't post thousands of posts talking about how every aspect is abysmal.

 

[agentsands77]

I think KOTCS follows the template of Raiders pretty well.

In what fashion? It's not a lot like RAIDERS in terms of tone.

If there is an issue, it's that KOTCS follows that template too well... in that it feels closer to an action movie of the 1980's than it does to an action movie of the early 21st century. Fact is that cinema has moved on and that at the moment, a large section of the audience either wants dumbed down wall to wall action (read The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man), or they want gritty action with a documentary/back to basics feel (read Jason Bourne, Batman Begins and Casino Royale). I think that's the bit where there is a disparity between what Spielberg delivered, and what some of the market audience wanted...

I don't agree. I think it's as simple as the fact that Spielberg delivered a film that was sillier than some of the market (especially the fanbase) was prepared to accept. It was never going to please everyone, but had dialed back some of the silliness and been a little more grounded (even if it was only as grounded as CRUSADE was), it would have gone over a lot better.

 

[No Ticket]

This is how I feel.


Indy never had a proper "Oh my god I gotta get out of this" moment. I mean sure it had them but they didn't have the right feel. It has to have lots of htings going on.

Raiders - On the truck being stuck on the front of the car as the Nazi gases it and realizes the only way out is under. The guys in the other car are looking back... the Nazi is getting a kick out of it all... Indy doubles back and triumphantly bangs his head against the wheel and throws HIM out the window. F YEAH!

TOD - The bridge. No way out. Has to cut the rope bridge... people shoot at him from behind... Indy even lets out a "Geez!"

LC - Stuck on the gun on the tank. can't get free. Tank is pulling towards the cliff side!