Cowboys & Aliens

Stoo · Apr 7, 2011

Rocket Surgeon said:
I'm not interested in this film in the slightest. Aliens are everywhere. It's a shame really, because Ford in a gritty western, (minus the syfy) alongside whats-his-face might have been interesting.

Montana Smith said:
Precisely my feelings. The comic book was dull for a start. A waste of a western! (Especially since it was a rare Harry western).

My good friends, thanks for letting us know that neither of you care.

When the time comes, both of you WILL watch "Cowboys & Aliens". It's an almost guaranteed and pre-determined fact.

Many people here seem to have a massive BONER/HARD-ON for Batman, super-hero movies and "Pirates of the Caribbean". Those films don't interest me at all but at least I can refrain from posting about my non-interest. (If I had a dollar for every super-hero movie thread that I didn't care for...oooh-wee, I'd be a rich man.)

Guys, if you're Jonesing for Harry in a proper western, then watch "The Virginian" or "Journey to Shiloh". :gun:

P.S. If he hasn't been abducted again, it's a good bet that Matt deMille is already standing in line for this flick...Shakin' the bacon while he waits for opening day...

Montana Smith · Apr 7, 2011

Dr.Sartorius said:
You're passing judgement on the movie before you've even seen it?

That's easy, because it's obviously not a western, and a western is what I'd rather see Harry in again. This is as close to a western as the Marshall BraveStarr cartoon was!

Rocket Surgeon said:
The gimmick is dull to me. More gagetry and lasers...ho hum.

Given a choice betweeen pretty lights or black powder and lead, the latter is more satisfying. What's a western without a little gunshot and smoke?

Stoo said:
My good friends, thanks for letting us know that neither of you care.

It's all part of the home delivery service. Opinions dropped right on your doorstep.

Stoo said:
When the time comes, both of you WILL watch "Cowboys & Aliens". It's an almost guaranteed and pre-determined fact.

This one will get dropped into the pit with the likes of Avatar, which I've never seen, and have no inclination to see.

The source material for C&A wasn't good. It was one of the worst comic books I've ever read. I don't like the idea of putting sci-fi into westerns (it's like tainting something pure), but I do like the idea of putting the western into sci-fi (Star Wars, Outland, Firefly, and so on).

Stoo said:
Guys, if you're Jonesing for Harry in a proper western, then watch "The Virginian" or "Journey to Shiloh".

But there was a chance to see Harry as he is now in a proper western. He would compare to John Wayne, as not the greatest actor, but picking roles that suited his performance. I could imagine Harry in The Shootist.

Stoo said:
P.S. If he hasn't been abducted again, it's a good bet that Matt deMille is already standing in line for this flick...Shakin' the bacon while he waits for opening day...

He'll be on the credits as 'Chief Advisor'.

Stoo · Apr 8, 2011

Montana Smith said:
This one will get dropped into the pit with the likes of Avatar, which I've never seen, and have no inclination to see.

Hmm...Great timing, Smiffy! EXACTLY one year ago today (in post #28 of this thread), you wrote: "I suppose aliens can visit earth at any time, so it might work."

Personally, I'd much rather see a film with Harrison wearing a cowboy hat, then a movie about a guy whose voice changes when dressing up as a bat.

Montana Smith said:
The source material for C&A wasn't good. It was one of the worst comic books I've ever read. I don't like the idea of putting sci-fi into westerns (it's like tainting something pure), but I do like the idea of putting the western into sci-fi (Star Wars, Outland, Firefly, and so on).

The quality of the comic is unknown to me but it has been reported here that the movie won't feature the same story. I know you didn't like "The Valley of Gwangi" but have you ever seen the '60s TV series, "The Wild Wild West", or the movie, "Westworld"?

Montana Smith said:
But there was a chance to see Harry as he is now in a proper western.

What chance was that?

Montana Smith said:
He'll be on the credits as 'Chief Advisor'.

Bwa-ha!

Montana Smith · Apr 8, 2011

Stoo said:
Hmm...Great timing, Smiffy! EXACTLY one year ago today (in post #28 of this thread), you wrote: "I suppose aliens can visit earth at any time, so it might work."

In post #31 I wrote:

Smiffy said:
If you think about Predator 2, the Predator Elder had a flintlock pistol bearing the inscription, "Raphael Adolini 1715". In Predator lore, Adolini was the most feared Barbary pirate, and therefore, a worthy prey.

So, that was aliens vs. pirates. Why not aliens vs. cowboys and indians? I've never read the comic, so I don't know what sort of aliens are involved.

After that I read the comic online and the idea didn't gel. It looked wrong. (Like those cowboys vs dinos!

)

The quality of the comic is unknown to me but it has been reported here that the movie won't feature the same story. I know you didn't like "The Valley of Gwangi" but have you ever seen the '60s TV series, "The Wild Wild West", or the movie, "Westworld"?

Ah yes, Gwangi, that's the one!

Westworld was from the other angle - bringing the western into sci-fi, like Star Wars, Outland, or Firefly, as I noted. Putting sci-fi into the western is something else - but saying that, there is a role-playing game called "Deadlands: The Weird West", which puts Cthulhu-esque weirdness into the old west.

Stoo said:
What chance was that?

There was always a chance he'd be offered such a script. He would have been good as Rooster Cogburn in the updated True Grit. Now he's done the cowboy thing, he may be offered a role in the pure un-alienated' genre.

Rocket Surgeon · Apr 8, 2011

Stoo said:
My good friends, thanks for letting us know that neither of you care. When the time comes, both of you WILL watch "Cowboys & Aliens". It's an almost guaranteed and pre-determined fact.

"Almost"

Maybe when it's on TV, as long as my antennae picks up the signal...

Stoo said:
Many people here seem to have a massive BONER/HARD-ON for Batman, super-hero movies and "Pirates of the Caribbean". Those films don't interest me at all but at least I can refrain from posting about my non-interest. (If I had a dollar for every super-hero movie thread that I didn't care for...oooh-wee, I'd be a rich man.)

When I see my favorite action hero chasing aliens down with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard.

Stoo said:
Guys, if you're Jonesing for Harry in a proper western, then watch "The Virginian" or "Journey to Shiloh".

Not recommending The Cisco Kid anymore?

Stoo said:
P.S. If he hasn't been abducted again, it's a good bet that Matt deMille is already standing in line for this flick...Shakin' the bacon while he waits for opening day...

Veracity Consultant...him and Wyatt Earp.

Stoo · Apr 8, 2011

Montana Smith said:
In post #31 I wrote:
--SNIP--
After that I read the comic online and the idea didn't gel. It looked wrong. (Like those cowboys vs dinos! )
--SNIP--
Ah yes, Gwangi, that's the one!.

Gwangi ROCKS (and so does "The Beast From Hollow Mountian")! 'Nuff said.

Montana Smith said:
Westworld was from the other angle - bringing the western into sci-fi, like Star Wars, Outland, or Firefly, as I noted. Putting sci-fi into the western is something else - but saying that, there is a role-playing game called "Deadlands: The Weird West", which puts Cthulhu-esque weirdness into the old west.

I liked "Outland" but can you not dig something akin to "The Phantom Empire"?

"What happens when GENE AUTRY is captured by THE PHANTOM EMPIRE? A city BURIED for CENTURIES TWENTY THOUSAND FEET UNDER the EARTH! They couldn't breathe our air! It's NEW! It's DIFFERENT! SEE for yourself! WATCH The Phantom Empire CRASH to OBLIVION! Stupendous! Sensational! DON'T MISS IT!"

Earlier in this thread, Ed Dolista from the IndyCast mentioned the obscure, late '70s TV series, "Cliffhangers". It was a fun show and you might have liked it. One of the running segments re-worked "Phantom Empire" and called it, "The Secret Empire", with a cowboy finding an alien underworld. The scenes above ground were done in sepia tone black & white. Behold it's greatness with this clip:

Montana Smith said:
There was always a chance he'd be offered such a script. He would have been good as Rooster Cogburn in the updated True Grit. Now he's done the cowboy thing, he may be offered a role in the pure un-alienated' genre.

One can only hope for a new, proper western with Harrison but I highly doubt he could've bested Jeff Bridges' interpretation of Rooster.

Rocket Surgeon said:
Maybe when it's on TV, as long as my antennae picks up the signal...

Rocket, wrap aluminum foil around your rabbit ears for better reception.

Rocket Surgeon said:
Not recommending The Cisco Kid anymore?

Heh. I've never been one to recommend "The Frisco Kid". That movie is, like, d'uh...so-o-o post-"Star Wars".

Rocket Surgeon said:
Veracity Consultant...him and Wyatt Earp.

How many camera lenses could've cracked if he had an on-set hissy-fit?

Dr.Sartorius · Apr 8, 2011

That's easy, because it's obviously not a western, and a western is what I'd rather see Harry in again. This is as close to a western as the Marshall BraveStarr cartoon was!

I think it obviously is a western, juding from what I've seen and read so far. Just because it has an injection of alien invasion sci fi doesn't mean it can't be a serious western.

Jon Favreau has stated quite a few times that his approach on this film is as if it is a quintessential western in the tradition of The Searchers and Once Upon a Time in the West.

On the synthesis of the western and sci-fi genres, Favreau said that his plan was always to make a straightforward western in the tradition of Sergio Leone and John Ford, but to add in touches of the old-style science fiction he loved that bordered more on horror. He name dropped CLOSE ENCOUNTERS, ALIEN and PREDATOR as examples.

“We made the decision to treat the Western [intro of Cowboys & Aliens] like that movie could go on, Harrison and Daniel versus each other and the town in between,” he said at a press briefing following the premiere. “If aliens didn’t land 10 minutes into the movie, that movie could keep going. When this other genre erupts, they’re reacting like you would back then.”

Favreau extensively researched classic movies of the genre. " went through the whole John Ford [set], you know, all the John Ford films I could get my hands on; also some [Sergio] Leone [films]." Ford made his name exploring the world of the Western with "Stagecoach," while Leone's "Once Upon a Time in the West" is lauded by film historians as the eulogy for the Western as an important genre. With some 30 years of movies being released between those two landmark films, Favreau noticed a recurring format despite the influence of technology and world history.

Montana Smith · Apr 8, 2011

Stoo said:
I liked "Outland" but can you not dig something akin to "The Phantom Empire"?

"What happens when GENE AUTRY is captured by THE PHANTOM EMPIRE? A city BURIED for CENTURIES TWENTY THOUSAND FEET UNDER the EARTH! They couldn't breathe our air! It's NEW! It's DIFFERENT! SEE for yourself! WATCH The Phantom Empire CRASH to OBLIVION! Stupendous! Sensational! DON'T MISS IT!"

Earlier in this thread, Ed Dolista from the IndyCast mentioned the obscure, late '70s TV series, "Cliffhangers". It was a fun show and you might have liked it. One of the running segments re-worked "Phantom Empire" and called it, "The Secret Empire", with a cowboy finding an alien underworld. The scenes above ground were done in sepia tone black & white. Behold it's greatness with this clip:

Er, I don't think so.

Dr. Sartorius said:
I think it obviously is a western, juding from what I've seen and read so far. Just because it has an injection of alien invasion sci fi doesn't mean it can't be a serious western.

Jon Favreau has stated quite a few times that his approach on this film is as if it is a quintessential western in the tradition of The Searchers and Once Upon a Time in the West.

The western is a pure genre, like war films. Sergio Leone and the other Italians weren't making westerns, but fantasies to counter-act the soft western fantasies that Hollywood was putting out: when American movies weren't permitted to show the gun being fired and the bullet hitting in the same shot.

Once Upon a Time in the West was filmed mainly in Spain (the colour of the sand and dust is a giveaway), with a few shots done in America as a homage to John Ford. (It's one of my favourite movies).

What Favreau did was a similar enterprise: the Italians fused genuine western ideals with over the top violence and super-powered gunfighters; Favreau is fusing his with science fiction. I don't know whether that makes it a science-fiction western or a western science-fiction. Either way, it's no longer a tale of the struggle to forge America, as inspired by real life, but a fantasy.

RaiderMitch · Apr 9, 2011

Just came back from NYC and the MoCCA show (Museum of Cartoon and Comic Art) and spoke with Fred Van Lente writer of "Cowboys and Indians" - nice guy - very talented - and has written everything form Spiderman to Halo to Kolchak . . . says they are finishing up the movie and it looks great. Was going to do an IndyCast interview but got started talking about his other books.

Sharkey · Apr 9, 2011

Dr.Sartorius said:
I think it obviously is a western, juding from what I've seen and read so far. Just because it has an injection of alien invasion sci fi doesn't mean it can't be a serious western.

Obviously a western...serious western? NO.

Dr.Sartorius · Apr 9, 2011

Sharkey said:
Obviously a western...serious western? NO.

It doesn't need to be a 'pure western'...in order to be SERIOUS.

Stoo · Apr 11, 2011

Montana Smith said:
Er, I don't think so.

You must realize that I was just clowing around about "Phantom Empire", eh?

Montana Smith said:
The western is a pure genre, like war films.

Re. Western & War films being a pure genre: "Pure". Yeah, right.

Is that why you're into Captain America and Wonder Woman.

You must have read "Weird War" as a kid and liked it!

There's not much difference between WW2 fantasies and "Cowboys & Aliens".

Montana Smith said:
Sergio Leone and the other Italians weren't making westerns, but fantasies to counter-act the soft western fantasies that Hollywood was putting out: when American movies weren't permitted to show the gun being fired and the bullet hitting in the same shot.

What Favreau did was a similar enterprise: the Italians fused genuine western ideals with over the top violence and super-powered gunfighters;

Many, MANY Hollywood westerns are HIGHLY fictional (rooted in reality but fictional nonetheless.)

Montana Smith said:
Favreau is fusing his with science fiction. I don't know whether that makes it a science-fiction western or a western science-fiction. Either way, it's no longer a tale of the struggle to forge America, as inspired by real life, but a fantasy.

Where is the problem?

Our beloved Indiana Jones films are FANTASY!!! :gun:

Montana Smith · Apr 11, 2011

Stoo said:
You must realize that I was just clowing around about "Phantom Empire", eh?

That's a relief!

Stoo said:
Re. Western & War films being a pure genre: "Pure". Yeah, right. Is that why you're into Captain America and Wonder Woman. You must have read "Weird War" as a kid and liked it! There's not much difference between WW2 fantasies and "Cowboys & Aliens".

Many, MANY Hollywood westerns are HIGHLY fictional (rooted in reality but fictional nonetheless.)

Where is the problem? Our beloved Indiana Jones films are FANTASY!!!

There are western fantasies and fantasy westerns, as there are war fantasies and fantasy war films. But with a movie in the pure western or war genre you generally know what to expect. (Unless it's something like Castle Keep!) If you went to see the latest western at the cinema, and all of a sudden aliens turned up, well, that's not what I'd expect. And the reason for all this was that I'd have liked to have seen Harrison in a full-on western again, not another alien/SF movie!

Stoo · Apr 13, 2011

Montana Smith said:
That's a relief!

"Phantom Empire/Secret Empire" is crap but the Susan Anton segment ("Stop Susan Williams") from "Cliffhangers" was TOTALLY Indy-esque...and it PRECEDED "Raiders"! (For an 11-year-old, it was pretty danged cool.) :whip:

Montana Smith said:
There are western fantasies and fantasy westerns, as there are war fantasies and fantasy war films. But with a movie in the pure western or war genre you generally know what to expect. (Unless it's something like Castle Keep!) If you went to see the latest western at the cinema, and all of a sudden aliens turned up, well, that's not what I'd expect. And the reason for all this was that I'd have liked to have seen Harrison in a full-on western again, not another alien/SF movie!

The TITLE (& advertising) for "Cowboys & Aliens" makes it pretty clear that one should not be expecting to see a 'pure' western. Harrison being in this film is simply a bonus because I'd look forward to this film even if it starred Joe Schmoe.

Smiffy, I can't make you like a certain genre but (in my opinion) "Cowboys & Aliens" is a hell of lot more interesting than movies about a BatMuffin!

P.S. "Castle Keep"!

(Glad you remembered that!)

Montana Smith · Apr 13, 2011

Stoo said:
The TITLE (& advertising) for "Cowboys & Aliens" makes it pretty clear that one should not be expecting to see a 'pure' western. Harrison being in this film is simply a bonus because I'd look forward to this film even if it starred Joe Schmoe.

I'm not knocking the genre, but for me there's something special about westerns that's inspiring, that doesn't need the inclusion of aliens (or dinosaurs).

It's why I like to see the western enter science fiction, rather than the other way around.

Stoo said:
Smiffy, I can't make you like a certain genre but (in my opinion) "Cowboys & Aliens" is a hell of lot more interesting than movies about a BatMuffin!

Stewie, I can't make you like the Batman but (in my opinion) The Dark Knight was a hell of lot more interesting than movies about Cowboys and Aliens!

Stoo said:
P.S. "Castle Keep"! (Glad you remembered that!)

It was a strange, existentialist war film. There's a western one hovering just out of reach at the back of my mind.

kongisking · Apr 14, 2011

Montana Smith said:
Stewie, I can't make you like the Batman but (in my opinion) The Dark Knight was a hell of lot more interesting than movies about Cowboys and Aliens!

Now this is one hell of a frustrating post. On the one hand, I cheer for you supporting The Dark Knight, and yet am dismayed by you being so dismissive of Cowboys & Aliens without even giving it a shot first. You've shown this attitude towards Green Lantern and Avatar, as well. Sigh.

*It's too much!*

Mungi · Apr 14, 2011

kongisking said:
I'm praying that if C&A is successful, it will convince Spielberg and Lucas to get back to work in order to ride the guaranteed wave of new interest in Ford the film will create.

Looking forward to tonight:

The full 2 1/2 min trailer for Cowboys & Aliens will premiere on American Idol Thurs nite (and then posted on Apple)

http://twitter.com/Jon_Favreau/status/57847160099704832

Montana Smith · Apr 14, 2011

kongisking said:
Now this is one hell of a frustrating post. On the one hand, I cheer for you supporting The Dark Knight, and yet am dismayed by you being so dismissive of Cowboys & Aliens without even giving it a shot first. You've shown this attitude towards Green Lantern and Avatar, as well. Sigh.

*It's too much!*

Dry your eyes!

The Green Lantern looked meh. The Green Lantern movie also looks suitably meh.

The blue characters in Avatar look visually horrible, like they escaped from some Saturday morning cartoon. I have no interest (despite the massive hype) to watch a whole movie with them in.

And as for Cowboys and Aliens, I have no wish to see the old west twisted into something that reminds me of Marshall BraveStarr!

TheMutt92 · Apr 15, 2011

Theatrical Trailer...

Dr.Sartorius · Apr 15, 2011

Looks like a hell of a ride. I wish there was more Harrison in the trailer though.

Cowboys & Aliens

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