1951

The Lone Raider

The Lone Raider

Well-known member
Did it occur to anyone else that the year Indy ceased communication with the Shaws was the same year that Henry died, followed shortly by Marcus a year later?

Adds some interesting context, retroactively, to his journey out of loneliness in Kingdom. So does the photo of Marion that he kept with him in his bag that we see on the train in 1944. When Indy is mourning over his losses with Charlie, I can imagine he was feeling regret over fleeing from Marion (seems to have affected him for years) and estranging himself from Bas and Helena just as much as he was mourning the loss of Henry and Marcus and feeling the sting of betrayal from Mac. Seems like Charlie was Indy's only friend at the time, and Indy couldn't even stick around to enjoy that.

I don't know how intentional this was on the part of the writers, but I would certainly like to give them credit for their attention to detail in Indy's timeline and character growth.
 
Forbidden Eye

Forbidden Eye

Well-known member
The Lone Raider said:
Did it occur to anyone else that the year Indy ceased communication with the Shaws was the same year that Henry died, followed shortly by Marcus a year later?
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No because I never knew it was confirmed that Henry Jones Sr. died in 1951.

A quick search engine search reveals there’s apparently conflicting sources as the James Rollins’ book confirms his death in 1955-1956 like indicated in the movie(“brutal couple years huh Charlie?”) meanwhile the DK book says 1951 for whatever reason.
 
michael

michael

Well-known member
The Lone Raider said:
Did it occur to anyone else that the year Indy ceased communication with the Shaws was the same year that Henry died, followed shortly by Marcus a year later?

Adds some interesting context, retroactively, to his journey out of loneliness in Kingdom.
Click to expand...

I like where your head is at for most of your theory.

He may be lonely in Skull, but he's not a 'mess' lonely. He's still out in the field (off-screen adventure with Mac), his house is still very well kept, and he seems to have wine on hand for Dean Stanforth rather than whiskey.

Even when meets Mutt, the name Mary doesn't even trigger the idea of Marion (i have my issues with this even more now with Dial's ending....but I'm not going to get into that). Let's keep this Skull related.

I do think he's more at a crossroads in Skull than he is in Dial. You could also argue this same sort of crossroads/loneliness was present in Crusade when he hops out the window with the very soft B theme playing. Scene always seemed deeper to me than just not wanting to grade papers.

But I also think it's just how Spielberg played it. Right before he embarks on his would be 'teaching' adventure, his son shows up. It's a great moment in hindsight.

Was he starting to withdraw from people in Skull? It's entirely possible...I just don't think it was as bad as we think it was.
 
The Lone Raider

The Lone Raider

Well-known member
Forbidden Eye said:
No because I never knew it was confirmed that Henry Jones Sr. died in 1951.

A quick search engine search reveals there’s apparently conflicting sources as the James Rollins’ book confirms his death in 1955-1956 like indicated in the movie(“brutal couple years huh Charlie?”) meanwhile the DK book says 1951 for whatever reason.
Click to expand...
I was going off of the wiki, which cites The Ultimate Guide as the source claiming that Henry died in 1951 and Marcus in 1952 🤷‍♂️

To me, I think it gives Indy an additional reason for not reaching out to the Shaws again. 1951 turned out to not be a great year for him. He already blamed himself for Basil's mental state, and then Henry dies not too much later. Or perhaps Henry passed first, and then Indy was already overcome with enough grief that Basil's unhinged attitude became the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. Indy just didn't have it in him to reach out again.

And that checks out with what Indy was trying to tell Helena in the tuk-tuk when they were arguing...

Helena: "If only there'd been somewhere there for me. Some father figure. Someone specifically anointed with a job."
Indy: "You have no idea what kind of -"

Indy dealt with at least two deaths right around the same time. Then he got busy helping Sallah's family move to America during the Suez crisis. Then he gets betrayed by an old friend, meets his illegitimate son and old lover, and gets married, and now has to tend to his obligations as a husband and an actual father. Then he transfers colleges. Then his son dies in Vietnam a few years later.

Not trying to justify Indy's avoidant behavior here, but the 50s and 60s really turned his life upside down. And, if he reacted to the deaths of Henry and Marcus the way he reacted to Mutt's death, it wouldn't be surprising if he emotionally retreated for a while, too. You almost can't blame him for not reaching out to Helena. You can maybe disagree with his actions (or inaction in this case), but it's all certainly understandable.
 
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Lance Quazar

Lance Quazar

Well-known member
The Lone Raider said:
I was going off of the wiki, which cites The Ultimate Guide as the source claiming that Henry died in 1951 and Marcus in 1952
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Not that the dialogue need to be taken 100% literally, but Indy does say "rough couple of years" referring to the deaths of Marcus and Henry. Somewhat odd phrasing if they died 5 and 6 years before the time of the statement.
 
Lao_Che

Lao_Che

Active member
Just had a look and Rollins' novel says "It's been a brutal couple of years." Luceno's says "Brutal couple of years" and he also wrote the guide. Suppose it can be taken as a pair a deaths across back to back years in his case. And the movie/screenplay uses the same phrasing as Luceno.
 
R

Raiders90

Well-known member
It seems to me that the early to mid 50s were just a crappy time for Indy in general. His father died, Marcus died, one of his oldest friends went insane, and he was firmly in mid life with not really anything of great value to show for it. No wife; no family. A big but very empty house.
 
michael

michael

Well-known member
Yeah Wyoming 1950.

As far as the month....well shoot...it can snow like that in Wyoming at the drop of the hat in most months so anyone's guess is as good mine
 
Grizzlor

Grizzlor

Well-known member
Spiked said:
Who makes up those dates?
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Exactly, the years in the book were completely made up by the author. It's never specified in the script, just the "brutal couple of years" comment from Indy to Charlie, which Rollins' novelization used literally. I also took the film's dialogue to mean within the last couple years so closer to 1957.
 
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