Ancient aliens

[time-raider]

Well put.

 

[Montana Smith]

Well put.

Thank you, I hadn't expected my words to find favour with you!

If they did, then I was at least partly successful in my aim of maintaining an objective sense of proportion to the events being discussed here.

 

[Stoo]

Re: "Project U.F.O." TV series

"Ezekiel saw the wheel"

Wow, that one takes me back.

"...and this is the wheel he said he saw."

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yVVADz0Afss&hl=en_US&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yVVADz0Afss&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

So what exactly was Ezekiel's Wheel?
1) a fabricated story
2) a hallucination or figment of imagination
3) the chariot of G_d (the Merkabah)
4) an alien craft
5) a human-built craft made with alien-given, technological intelligence
6) natural phenomenon

Ancient people were smarter than we give them credit for.

This is quite contrary to what you were stating earlier. You also mentioned that you get your ''words of wisdom from Gandalf and Yoda" so when you keep mentioning "human arrogance", I can only suspect that you're quoting Spock from "Star Trek IV". Yes? No?

I know Segan died. I refer to him in the present tense because he's often quoted as such, as if he's some sort of omnipresent science god. If I'm going to have catchphrases thrown at me like they actually mean something, I'm going to treat silliness with a little sarcasm.

Carl Sagan, SAGAN. Like others have mentioned above, you're demanding objectivity but not giving it. You are categorically and emphatically biased which makes it difficult to have a proper discussion.

Have there been other cases of alien contact where the human is bestowed with telekinetic powers or are you the exception?

 

[WilliamBoyd8]

What about this 700-year-old church painting in Austria?

700-year-old picture of 'Mickey Mouse' found in Austrian church

What appears to be a 700-year-old picture of Mickey Mouse has been
discovered on a church fresco in Austria.

Walt Disney first sketched his character in 1928 but an Austrian art
historian spotted an uncannily similar drawing.

The painting, which has been dated back to the early 14th Century, is in
the Community Church in Malta, Carinthia. Next to a large sketch of St.
Christopher is a clear drawing of the mouse. Art historian Eduard
Mahlknecht believes the similarity to Mickey is pure coincidence. He
told Austrian daily 'Krone: "St Christopher was often depicted
surrounded by various animals and sea-life, and in this case something
that resembles Mickey Mouse. "It is most likely to be a drawing of a
beaver or a weasel".

Article:
http://www.strangetravel.com/content/item/6965.html

 

[Matt deMille]

Montana, that is, indeed, well said. And, believe it or not, I agree with pretty much all of it.

Hitler wasn't as much into the occult as legend has it. He was interested, but the bigger deal made of it was more his inner circle and propaganda. Hitler also hired stage magicians to coach him on how to seduce his audiences. But when you state things publicly, you have to follow through, hence the Nazis did mount expeditions with occult ends. How much Hitler truly believed is one thing, but such investigations did take place. Maybe it was more Himmler's thing.

I'm sorry you didn't find Fingerprints' writing style to your tastes. Oh well. It was just one recommendation.

I must thank you greatly for your respectful approach to my past. I hadn't expected anywhere near so objective a reaction on this thread. I would like to use this as an example, if I may: You say you don't know how to take it since it isn't in your realm of experience. Could be real, could not be. Okay. I accept and understand that and agree with you whole-heartedly. I wish more posts in this thread were neutral like that. To say "maybe, maybe not" and leave it at that without the insults that usually fly. So, thank you again for being respectful and neutral, and moreover, thank you for setting a good example, and hopefully this thread can get back on track. All I ask is neutrality and open-mindedness. As Time-Raider said, "Well put".

For the record, on conspiracy theorists, I actually despise the guys. I don't believe at all in "hollow earth", or all these X-File-like wild stories. My view on an alien cover-up is pretty logical: If aliens were to come here, the government would cover it up, because that's what they do with everything. It's just business as usual. There's a multitude of reasons why such a thing would be repressed, and really no reason why it would be disclosed.

Stoo . . . I said I take wisdom from Gandalf and Yoda. Yes. That doesn't lessen my objectivity or intelligence. I recognize good, wholesome stories that inspire and offer good guidance. That's a human trait. Many of our greatest leaders, explorers and scientists throughout history had a religious faith from which they drew inspiration. Take, for example, General Patton. The man was a military genius but also prayed on his knees. Since I see little to no difference between the Bible and Lord of the Rings (both fictions which have inspiration and good characters), I don't see why this is an issue. The line is drawn between believing in the fantasy or simply taking it as a good story. Do I believe in Middle-Earth as a real place? Of course not. I just wish religious folks would come down off their high-horse and admit the same, that Jesus is a character they like to believe in, but don't literally believe in.

One thing I'd like to add about Sagan: I attack him because he attacked ufology. A lot of scientists and debunkers use Sagan (because he was all too willing to do it) as their poster boy for UFO skepticism. Yet Sagan was quite the hypocrite. For example, he'd often go way outside his field, his training, ti debunk, relying on his name and his fame alone. He was most vocal about alien abductees, and saying it's all psychological. Yet he was not in any way trained in psychiatry. He did not have a degree in psychological medicine, yet here he was on TV, time after time, saying contactees are full of it purely based on psychological ground, even going so far as to question and challenge John Mack, a Harvard psychiatrist. This is why I have no respect for Sagan and will indeed sarcastically address him and his quacky claims. Since ufologists are constantly attacked on grounds of "not being scientists", then the poster boy for debunking should be called on the same grounds too, as he gleefully attacked ufology in realms in which he had no more training than the layman UFO nut with the tinfoil hat. And I actually do not watch Star Trek. I think I've seen three of the movies and a total of two episodes of all its television. I respect Star Trek, but I don't have the time for it.

To finish, in regards to my "telekinetic powers", I never claimed telekinesis. That is moving objects remotely. Get your facts right if you're going to accuse me of inventing things. What I'm describing for my conditions are ESP and electrokinesis. And yes, this is actually quite common amongst experiencers. And they aren't just claims, either. A lot of this has been well documented, even studied by the government in long abandoned but openly disclosed projects. And these are not "powers". That's a word I'm sure you chose to deliberately try and make this sound absurd. ESP and all other psychic ability is a trait all human beings posses, but have simply forgotten how to use, being so obsessed with their material world.

 

[Rocket Surgeon]

What I'm describing for my conditions are ESP and electrokinesis. And yes, this is actually quite common amongst experiencers. And they aren't just claims, either. A lot of this has been well documented, even studied by the government in long abandoned but openly disclosed projects. And these are not "powers". That's a word I'm sure you chose to deliberately try and make this sound absurd. ESP and all other psychic ability is a trait all human beings posses, but have simply forgotten how to use, being so obsessed with their material world.

Surprising you haven't completed this by now, but it would do you a great service to employ the education you garnered at AFI and visually document such an experience. This would be your very own "Citizen Kane". I don't know how common the experience is since I'm only aware of it from the writings of Stephen King.

Understanding these are not powers which can be turned on and off like a light switch, as I take your posts, you could read this thread to heighten your emotional state...

 

[Matt deMille]

Surprising you haven't completed this by now, but it would do you a great service to employ the education you garnered at AFI and visually document such an experience. This would be your very own "Citizen Kane". I don't know how common the experience is since I'm only aware of it from the writings of Stephen King.

Understanding these are not powers which can be turned on and off like a light switch, as I take your posts, you could read this thread to heighten your emotional state...

Hi, Rocket Surgeon.

Funny you mention it. I do indeed intend to use film as a medium to broaden the minds of the public. If my own experiences can help in that, I'm willing to throw myself into the meat-grinder. Actually, everyone has to do that in Hollywood anyway -- totally sacrifice themselves -- so I guess I must. However, I graduated only this year, so I'm just getting rolling. The tricky part is finding collaborators (producers, writers, etc.) who not only understand the material and take it seriously, but are willing to "take a chance" on it. Thankfully, movies like Paranormal Activity and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull are recent reminders to backers that this subject matter isn't really that big of a gamble. We'll see what happens.

I'm surprised more movies like this haven't been made, or haven't been done properly. An Area 51 conspiracy movie by Oliver Stone is one that I've longed for. Not because *I* find it entertaining necessarily, but because cinema is the church of the modern age, and good movies are an effective way of opening up the public mind to all this. Would anyone like a new thread that talks about which movies about UFOs or the paranormal are good/accurate or bad/inaccurate? I'm not sure if it's quite on topic for this thread.

 

[Rocket Surgeon]

I do indeed intend to use film as a medium to broaden the minds of the public. If my own experiences can help in that, I'm willing to throw myself into the meat-grinder.

Well, I look forward to any proof you can provide. While you shouldn't abandon the search for collaborators, such a personal project should be just that...personal. Judging by your posts, there's no doubt you can write, convincing others this is fact and not fiction is a battle you're likely to lose. UNLESS you can provide proof, and if you can you should. There's NO substitute.

Ultimately, a bare bones documentary about all the things you know so well is the best start. Style would help as well...

 

[Matt deMille]

Actually, I'd rather not do a documentary. So many have been done. Those who are aware of UFOs don't need new documentaries (although they're certainly still welcome), and those who don't want to accept UFOs won't watch them, no matter how good they are. Thus, I don't think there's much ground to be gained there. I'm more interested in opening minds, meaning, exposing the general public to the harder realities of the paranormal. UFOs in particular. Most people accept ghosts and such due to religious conditioning throughout history. UFOs is what needs the breakthrough. Spielberg did that so very well with Close Encounters. That's the route I want to go. Present something that is essentially true but in an entertaining manner, so people are less likely to reject it outright.

Note: The basic story of Close Encounters -- an arranged military/UFO exchange -- took place, only not at Devil's Tower, but at Holloman Air Force Base.

I've frankly been disappointed with most UFO movies. X-Files dropped the ball, ID4 was fun but cartoony, and so forth. Any "big" UFO movie is either rightfully done for fun (MIB) or, if done serious, just isn't done very well (Fire In The Sky). "Close Encounters", for me, remains the best UFO movie to date, the best example of what I'd like to see more of, and so, maybe I'll have to be the one to make it happen. Here's hopin'!

 

[Attila the Professor]

But people are deeply accustomed to aliens in their popular culture - I don't think that more fictionalization of what you hold to be facts is going to help. A serious picture on the subject is a worthy enough goal, but I wouldn't treat it as something that people will find persuasive. After all, it's art, and I'm not sure that that's its purpose.

 

[Rocket Surgeon]

Actually, I'd rather not do a documentary. So many have been done.

So are your experiences no better/different than others you've seen?

For someone who believes, no, knows these truths first hand I'm surprised you would cheapen it by making it popular entertainment.

A documentary doesn't have to be dry or listless, and with such intimate knowledge of the material its almost screaming to be done.

Not documenting the phenomena you profess is well...

 

[Yure]

Ok, I'm all about open mind and I don't usually let skepticism run along freely.

BUT.

To believe that a young member of a Indiana Jones forum has twice and more been abducted by aliens, that has paranormal powers, that can explode a lightbulb just looking at it...

...is a little bit over the edge for me. Man, even Spalko wouldn't feed the troll.

 

[Matt deMille]

Ok, I'm all about open mind and I don't usually let skepticism run along freely.

BUT.

To believe that a young member of a Indiana Jones forum has twice and more been abducted by aliens, that has paranormal powers, that can explode a lightbulb just looking at it...

...is a little bit over the edge for me. Man, even Spalko wouldn't feed the troll.

Well, Yure, all I can say to that is there's a paper trail and a lot of witnesses to it. Hospital records, primarily. Ya know, those fake and invalid sorts of things.

And, Yure, check your facts. I have not, repeated, NOT been abducted by aliens. Nor did I ever make any such claim. In fact, I emphasized in more than one post that abduction was NOT what my encounters involved. And even if I had, can't you count? Twice? I had THREE encounters. And your use of the word "powers" after it has already been called out as a skeptical buzz-word . . . I find it over the edge that anyone can ignore what's written and then profess to speak with any kind of authority.

I find it rather insulting that at this point in the forums I have to reiterate things I've previously said three, four times, and people still ignore such simple statements as "I'm NOT an abductee" and then call me an abductee-claim and thereby further call me a troll.

If I'm a troll, what are you? What's the name for people who ignore what's written in plain black-and-white and then smugly assumes they have a loftier position? Since I'm so freely accused of making things up, I'll make up a title for folks like you: MORONS.

Whoops. That word already exists, doesn't it? Or does it? I guess I have to "prove" that word exists. I have to find centuries-old video of the innovator of the term and film of the word being typed into Webster's Dictionary database. But, even that wouldn't do, would it? Witnesses aren't valid if they counter your argument. I'll remember that next time I'm on a jury about a murder and the evidence is primarily eye-witness testimony.

But people are deeply accustomed to aliens in their popular culture - I don't think that more fictionalization of what you hold to be facts is going to help. A serious picture on the subject is a worthy enough goal, but I wouldn't treat it as something that people will find persuasive. After all, it's art, and I'm not sure that that's its purpose.

Attila, nice of you to join us. I hope you're right. Perhaps you're more optimistic or I'm more skeptical (about people being culturally accepting of aliens). I think a more specific definition of my feelings will help. I think aliens are, in a cultural sense, more terrifying than, say, a god or angels or even ghosts. There's a literally tradition of heroes overcoming evil and spirits. But UFOs, even if pop-culture, generally have us over a barrel. Plus, the reality of it could turn a lot of our supposed notions and institutions upside-down. People are uncomfortable with that, understandably so. I think the trick to a really provocative, worthwhile movie would be to take a really frightening aspect of ufology, such ancient aliens establishing our religions, and present it in a straightforward, no-nonsense manner, but with a ray of light, of hope. Would that appeal to audiences? I don't know. I'd like to think so, but nobody will know until it's made.

So are your experiences no better/different than others you've seen?

For someone who believes, no, knows these truths first hand I'm surprised you would cheapen it by making it popular entertainment.

A documentary doesn't have to be dry or listless, and with such intimate knowledge of the material its almost screaming to be done.

Not documenting the phenomena you profess is well...

My experiences are pretty "standard" among those who have met aliens. Actually, mine are pretty tame. Not being an abductee, after all. I just saw them. I can't imagine the horror of being taken by them. But there are millions of people who have reported the same things I have. Sure, a large percentage of them are probably publicity-seekers or delusional folks filled with wish-fulfillment. You can usually tell when you talk to them. Do they make sacrifices to hold to their story? How seriously do they take the issue? Do they pass up other opportunities for attention or glorification? Me, I just talk to those willing to listen. In fact, I have passed up many, many opportunities for sympathy, attention, whatever, and proudly pass them up. I think it weakens a person to do so. My experiences are real, they're memory, and I have to live with them. It's nice when someone accepts them (such as my fiance and family), but I don't change them (like many do) to regain someone's attention when they don't.

That brings us to movies. I see the general audience as "eager" to listen. I did consider for years and years, would I be selling-out my experiences if they are turned into entertainment? I would, if I made assumptions and passed them as real. If, indeed, I made a cinematic equivalent of a private conversation's attempt to "regain someone's attention". If I made an ID4 type movie, that'd be fine, but only if I said (as they did) "Hey, this is just for fun". But if I were to do something like Fire In The Sky, and tack onto the film "Based on a true story", I would walk a very, very careful line of not changing the facts even if it "made for a better movie". Most moviemakers fail to do that. And that is a shame upon them.

I'm glad to hear your vote of confidence for a documentary. Maybe I could do that. Back to Graham Hancock for a moment, with his books being not just research but a little storytelling as well (describing his day at the pyramid instead of just giving the raw data about the pyramid). Maybe I could go that route. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[Yure]

I truly believe that anyone calling a moron who doesn't believe he's encountered aliens and can mind-explode lighbulbs really crosses the line.
Thank you, moderators.

 

[Gabeed]

I find it over the edge that anyone can ignore what's written and then profess to speak with any kind of authority.

This is the most hilariously hypocritical thing so far coming from the mouth of the man who was trying to tell us about "Alexander seeing UFOs above Tire in 373 BC," and about how mysterious the pyramids of the Egyptian 4th dynasty are while ignoring the context of the other dynasties.

But people are deeply accustomed to aliens in their popular culture - I don't think that more fictionalization of what you hold to be facts is going to help. A serious picture on the subject is a worthy enough goal, but I wouldn't treat it as something that people will find persuasive. After all, it's art, and I'm not sure that that's its purpose.

Yeah, pretty much. There have been UFO and alien movies since, what, the '40's or '50's? And yet, mysteriously, no sudden overwhelming acceptance of aliens actually existing. It's because people can and will discern between fiction and non-fiction.

 

[Matt deMille]

I truly believe that anyone calling a moron who doesn't believe he's encountered aliens and can mind-explode lighbulbs really crosses the line. Thank you, moderators.

Why didn't you check what was written before flinging your accusations? Where did you get "abductee" from when I absolutely said multiple times that was not the case? I am NOT an abductee. How many times do I have to say that? Then you go and say I am one and use it as an excuse to insult me. Since you seem to disregard others' statements, showing no respect, and most likely just make things up to sound funny or cool, you deserve to be called a moron.

 

[Yure]

That's called an hyperbole.

 

[Matt deMille]

That's called an hyperbole.

Hyperbole? Meaning your claim I was an abductee, etc? Well, that I could forgive. But fair warning: A lot of posters in this thread seem to hold toes to the fire for exactly what you say. Many don't want to seem to allow any latitude for hyperbole, story, sarcasm, etc. That's why I've become so damn ornery. I'm just defending myself against the ridiculously high standard others seem fit to have set.

If it was hyperbole, okay, I'm cool with that.

Love the Spalko joke, by the way. I didn't think she'd hesitate to feed anything.

 

[Montana Smith]

Love the Spalko joke, by the way. I didn't think she'd hesitate to feed anything.

I bet she fed the baby bunny rabbits right up until they sent them down in a submariine, before killing their mother...

http://raven.theraider.net/showthread.php?p=454332&highlight=rabbit#post454332

SPALKO

We sent a submarine under the surface with a mother rabbit’s new litter on board. She remained on shore while one by one, the young rabbits were exterminated.

MAC

Lady, you need a new hobby.

SPALKO

(ignoring that)

Miles away, the mother’s EEG readings showed reaction at the very instant of death. There is without a question an organic mind-body link shared by all living creatures; we must control that collective link--

 

[Pale Horse]

two things

1. Terms of Service. okay, that said....


2.

..It's because people can and will discern between fiction and non-fiction.

I disagree. We don't know what 'non-fiction' is, so fiction readily jumps in to fill that gap. There are many authentic fictions out there, and many in-un-non-authentic non-fiction stories. We accept what we 'want' to accept. If we don't, it creates cognative dissonance. Most people will do whatever is necessary (notice I didn't say healthy or right) to pacify that dissonance.