Did George Lucas intend for Mutt to replace Indy?

[michael]

I'm of the belief that his nickname, Mutt, and his outfit is what people in the general audience didn't like. Mutt was just an awful awful nickname.

 

[The Lone Raider]

I will agree that his nickname is pretty on-the-nose, and also the worst of all nicknames in the series, but his outfit? A 50s greaser with a switchblade and rapier? It's cool...

What do you think is wrong with it in most people's eyes?

 

[Pale Horse]

It's self serving, TLR

 

[FordFan]

I agree to an extent, but I'm also tempted to push back a little. I wouldn't say that there wasn't anything weighty or emotional between Indy and Mutt - it just didn't manifest in the same way, largely because Indy and Henry had 39 years of prior history together, whereas Indy and Mutt were only beginning to develop their relationship over a few weeks to a couple months (depending on how much time passed between their meeting at the train station and the wedding). There was definitely some tension between, and some respect for, one another because of their similarities in some ways and differences in others, but they were only beginning to know each other. The tension between them comes to a head (in Kingdom, anyways) with the reveal of their father-son relationship, but you can see that even over the course of the jungle chase, they go from getting on each others' nerves to respecting each other for their respective abilities and even bonding over their teamwork amidst all the chaos with that little "Whoa," exchange.

In Kingdom, Indy and Mutt spend the entire time trying to figure each other out, whereas in Crusade, Indy and Henry are spending the entire time trying to reconcile after decades of emotional pain. In both instances, there are moments where father and son learn something about the other they didn't know before, but the emotional context is different.

I won't deny that I much prefer the dynamic between Indy and Henry, simply because I enjoy movies with deeper emotional drama and feel that the series peaked in Crusade as a result, but I don't know that I can fully agree that there was no meat to Indy and Mutt's relationship either. I think there maybe could have been a bit more - it might have been interesting to see Mutt explode at Indy at some point for not being around for 19 years, but instead it was the much more subtle "I don't know, why did you [stick around], Dad?" And that definitely carried some resentment, but also some affectionate teasing as well. It just seemed like they liked each other too much to really give into full-fledged rage (on screen in Kingdom, that is), and maybe that's because they're more similar to each other than in the case of Indy and Henry, I suppose.

I would argue the filmmakers didn't take full advantage of the concept of Indy having a son. For one thing, we knew he was Indy's son the second he was cast. So we wait an hour+ into the movie before they reveal it.

I think a more invested Spielberg would have done away with keeping it a "surprise", gone full Maury Povich in the first 15 minutes, and used that instead of set pieces to fuel the film.

 

[Pale Horse]

I would argue the filmmakers didn't take full advantage of the concept of Indy having a son. For one thing, we knew he was Indy's son the second he was cast. So we wait an hour+ into the movie before they reveal it.

I think a more invested Spielberg would have done away with keeping it a "surprise", gone full Maury Povich in the first 15 minutes, and used that instead of set pieces to fuel the film.

Let's go back to the days when spoilers and scripts weren't part of the pre-marketing before the movie came out. 1 script for the reveal only to the key players (Like 3), printed in an unregonizeable OCR font on red-paper, and mass the others for those in the movie. Maybe even cursive. No on reads or knows cursive anymore.

 

[michael]

I will agree that his nickname is pretty on-the-nose, and also the worst of all nicknames in the series, but his outfit? A 50s greaser with a switchblade and rapier? It's cool...

What do you think is wrong with it in most people's eyes?

Oh the outfit is fine because he is. But my point is maybe he never had to be a greaser.

I've always thought that outfit stuck out like a sore thumb once the movie hits the jungle. But as fordfan said one time, Indy's outfit also does too.

 

[Randy_Flagg]

I would argue the filmmakers didn't take full advantage of the concept of Indy having a son. For one thing, we knew he was Indy's son the second he was cast. So we wait an hour+ into the movie before they reveal it.

Yeah, it was played mainly for laughs and for a "surprise" which didn't surprise anyone.

Of course, much of Henry Sr's appearance was also played for laughs, but there was more heart underneath it than we ever got with Indy/Mutt. I get that Indy/Mutt didn't have the long history that Indy/Henry had, but there could easily have been a powerful moment showing them come to terms with their relationship, and/or maybe showing Indy regretting having missed seeing his son grow up. Not that Indy movies should be overly emotional, but a few well-placed lines throughout the script could have helped a lot, just as they did in LC.

The lack of a new father/son theme from JW didn't help. That theme in Last Crusade worked wonders in LC, but rehasing it in KOTCS didn't add weight to KOTCS, it just kind of made me wish I was watching LC.

 

[The Lone Raider]

The lack of a new father/son theme from JW didn't help. That theme in Last Crusade worked wonders in LC, but rehasing it in KOTCS didn't add weight to KOTCS, it just kind of made me wish I was watching LC.

A new theme would have been nice. I've never even thought of that but you raise a good point.

 

[British Raider]

I would argue the filmmakers didn't take full advantage of the concept of Indy having a son. For one thing, we knew he was Indy's son the second he was cast. So we wait an hour+ into the movie before they reveal it.

I think a more invested Spielberg would have done away with keeping it a "surprise", gone full Maury Povich in the first 15 minutes, and used that instead of set pieces to fuel the film.

I sometimes wonder if this is a lot of the movies problem, Lucas had stubbornly stuck to certain ideas and wouldn’t budge, and the gestation of the script was just so long they eventually arrived at compromises rather than solutions. Then it was a case of, it’s good enough, it’s now or never. Rather than deep revisions which clearly needed to be done to serve the movie better, particularly as it buckles in the second half. Clearly the first half as much as I love it needed to be different to serve a better second half…perhaps?

 

[Nurhachi1991]

Seeing an older and more refined Shia and Ford would of been absolutely epic.

 

[FordFan]

Seeing an older and more refined Shia and Ford would of been absolutely epic.

I actually think a more satisfying and emotional ending for DOD involved the dial being used to bring Mutt back. And having Indy reunited with him and Marion at the end.

 

[Dr.Jonesy]

Seeing an older and more refined Shia and Ford would of been absolutely epic.

If only he'd kept his **** together...

 

[FordFan]

Easier for some to deal with their mental health struggles than others.

 

[NickTurner]

Indiana Jones 6 - The search for Mutt

Coming soon to a time portal near you!

 

[The Lone Raider]

I actually think a more satisfying and emotional ending for DOD involved the dial being used to bring Mutt back. And having Indy reunited with him and Marion at the end.

But that's not how the time fissures work though. It's a causal loop. Indy was always present during the Siege of Syracuse. Nothing about history was changed. That was Voller's mistaken belief - that he could change the course of history.

So if Mutt was KIA, then even if they managed to locate a time fissure that opens up during a storm over Vietnam, and it happens to open up to a time not too distant before Mutt's death, it wouldn't matter. Mutt's death is a set point in history that was always going to happen. At most, Indy could only be a helpless witness of the event.

And the Antikythera couldn't predict that fissure anyways. It only knows how to predict the fissure that periodically opens up over Syracuse.

The causal loop also works thematically. The past cannot be changed, but Indy and Voller continue to live in the past, unable to accept their present reality and move on. That becomes Voller's undoing, and almost Indy's as well.

 

[FordFan]

But that's not how the time fissures work though. It's a causal loop. Indy was always present during the Siege of Syracuse. Nothing about history was changed. That was Voller's mistaken belief - that he could change the course of history.

So if Mutt was KIA, then even if they managed to locate a time fissure that opens up during a storm over Vietnam, and it happens to open up to a time not too distant before Mutt's death, it wouldn't matter. Mutt's death is a set point in history that was always going to happen. At most, Indy could only be a helpless witness of the event.

And the Antikythera couldn't predict that fissure anyways. It only knows how to predict the fissure that periodically opens up over Syracuse.

The causal loop also works thematically. The past cannot be changed, but Indy and Voller continue to live in the past, unable to accept their present reality and move on. That becomes Voller's undoing, and almost Indy's as well.

I just think killing him off without having him in the film reeks of a soap opera. Indy being estranged from both his son and wife works as well as killing Mutt off, and we get payoff of an actual reconciliation. Just one guy's $.02.

 

[Spiked]

It's a question I've been wondering for a while. I know that's how a lot of people perceived it, which contributed to their disliking of of Mutt's character and the whole film altogether. I definitely wondered that myself for several years, but I was always skeptical, and I definitely don't get that feeling anymore. Maybe that's because in recent years, I knew that a fifth film would be coming along, and Mutt would not be in it, so any lingering suspicions about Indy being replaced were quickly discarded.

But also, as I've come to understand the film's themes and Indy's arc more over the years, I've become increasingly convinced that Mutt's fight with Spalko and his vine-swinging shenanigans weren't meant to communicate that he was "the next Indy" necessarily, but that, like his father, he too was an adventurer at heart, and he had a wealth of potential just waiting to be tapped into, if only he were to receive guidance from a proper father figure. It aligns well with Indy's arc of overcoming loneliness and beginning a new phase of life in which he becomes a husband and father, and it also aligns with the whole "passing on of knowledge for a better tomorrow" theme throughout the film.

Then again, there is the hat tease at the end...so...
Could be wrong.

I never thought Mutt was going to replace Indy. I saw the hat thing at the end as a tease but ultimately Indy grabbed the hat, not Mutt.