Does anyone else get upset??

[DocWhiskey]

I think if one were being truly objective, one would see that the majority of pollsters on the "Rate the Indiana Jones Series", still gave KOTCS a good score. If we're rating the movies, one of them has to come bottom... and on that particular poll, it appears KOTCS is ranked number 4... but we shouldn't automatically assume that those casting their votes thought it was rubbish, or that they didn't enjoy it for what it was.

I figured since we are all big Indy fans here we'd automatically get that.

I should've worded my response better.

I didn't mean everyone thought KOTCS was rubbish, what I meant was, well, what I meant. It seems to be the one that ranks the lowest with the fans.

Which, of course, it isn't crap (though a few responses say it is) but it's generally viewed as the weakest of the series.

I think it's a lot of fun and I enjoy it dearly, but I find it the most problematic of the series.

 

[Wilhelm]

Before 2008 TOD was always ranked as the worst, that doesn''t mean that it was a failure. I love that movie, like KOTCS, so the 4 movies are very good, each movie independently are great entertainment.

 

[Darth Vile]

I figured since we are all big Indy fans here we'd automatically get that.

I should've worded my response better.

I didn't mean everyone thought KOTCS was rubbish, what I meant was, well, what I meant. It seems to be the one that ranks the lowest with the fans.

Which, of course, it isn't crap (though a few responses say it is) but it's generally viewed as the weakest of the series.

I think it's a lot of fun and I enjoy it dearly, but I find it the most problematic of the series.

Agreed - I was just making the point in order that the can of worms wasn't opened.

As it happens, I just went over to that thread and quickly totted up the scores on the doors. Something like 28 votes, with KOTCS coming bottom in 18 out of those 28. Not that the method is hugely scientific, but still... for circa a third of pollsters, KOTCS is not the weakest of the series. Alternatively (depending on which way one wants to position it), two thirds of pollsters think it is the weakest.

 

[deckard24]

I do think the Ryan character embodies- almost as much as Indy- the qualities that audiences associate with Ford. This is certainly true among older audiences, and one reason why I think he should've made The Sum of All Fears. It was a different script back in 2000, but even a weak Ryan film would've provided him with a decent hit.

Ford could easily return to the role, imo. Few associate Baldwin or Affleck with it, and as you note, he was basically playing the same character in Air Force One and Firewall.

However, I'm not so sure we can place his familial woes at the feet of Tom Clancy. He was already headed in that direction by the time of Patriot Games: The Mosquito Coast, Frantic, Presumed Innocent, and Regarding Henry. (Even Witness and Last Crusade were variations on the theme.)

It would have been interesting to see Ford take on the role in The Sum of All Fears, but of course they would have had to take the timeline into consideration, as Affleck's incarnation was a much younger, less experienced version of Ryan.

Ford could probably go another round as Ryan, but aside from putting his family in jeopardy , they'd have to come up with a way to put him in peril, and still keep it compelling. I think that was the problem with Clear and Present Danger, the "danger" didn't start for Ryan until almost 1/2 way to 3/4 of the way through the film. And even then, he pretty much inserted himself in the way of danger, as opposed to it popping up around him unexpectedly in Patriot Games.

A modern take on the current global issue of terrorism could be one way. Not to mention, seeing Ryan go to the Middle East could be a fun nod to Indy.

That's true his "Where's My Wife!" and "Where's My Family!" days started earlier, probably the first being Frantic, followed by Last Crusade, Patriot Games, and so on..

Originally Posted by Darth Vile
Interesting that you cite Bogart and John Wayne, as they too made some seminal movies towards the end of their careers (thinking African Queen, The Caine Mutiny, True Grit and The Shootist). I’d hope that Ford could do another “classic” movie before he retires from screen roles.

I'd love to see him get one more classic role under his belt before he retires! I've been hoping for a long time that he'd get hooked up with some really great directors like: the Coen Bros., David Cronenberg, Paul Thomas Anderson, Michael Mann, Werner Herzog, Peter Weir(Again! ), Christopher Nolan, etc...

 

[James]

It would have been interesting to see Ford take on the role in The Sum of All Fears, but of course they would have had to take the timeline into consideration, as Affleck's incarnation was a much younger, less experienced version of Ryan.

The original script was much different, with Ryan meeting with the Pope(!) and playing poker with the President. When Ford passed on it, they just split Ryan's character into two parts (Affleck, Freeman). It would've been very interesting to see what such a film would've been like, especially in light of Clear and Present Danger's ending.

I think Ryan trying to stop a terrorist plot on US soil would've been fairly compelling. After all, it's not easy to generate drama from a guy analyzing reports, yet they managed to pull it off in those two films.

I think if one were being truly objective, one would see that the majority of pollsters on the "Rate the Indiana Jones Series", still gave KOTCS a good score.

Personally, I think TOD is the weakest Indy movie, but it's still leagues above 99.9% of all the other action/adventure movies that get churned out each summer.

The other problem with the argument is that we're dealing with a beloved trilogy of films. It's rare that a modern installment manages to replace, as Lucas would say, fond memories.

You typically only see the newer film championed when fans were never that passionate about the older ones. Younger audiences today have no great love for the original Batman films or even a large percentage of the previous Bonds. The same even holds true for the Rocky and Rambo sequels. Both represent a franchise where the first installment is revered, while the (previous) final installment had been reviled.

But regardless of which Indy film one considers the weakest, I do agree that they are all superior to the average modern blockbuster.

 

[kongisking]

Even though I enjoy KOTCS, I've learned that many fans have sort of "settled" for it. A lot didn't necessarily love it unconditionally when it was first released.

Except for good ol' me!

 

[deckard24]

The original script was much different, with Ryan meeting with the Pope(!) and playing poker with the President. When Ford passed on it, they just split Ryan's character into two parts (Affleck, Freeman). It would've been very interesting to see what such a film would've been like, especially in light of Clear and Present Danger's ending.

I think Ryan trying to stop a terrorist plot on US soil would've been fairly compelling. After all, it's not easy to generate drama from a guy analyzing reports, yet they managed to pull it off in those two films.

That sounds interesting, and I'm curious about the meeting with the Pope, and what exactly the relevance to the story was.

Ryan trying to stop another terrorist attack on U.S. soil could be really suspenseful, and I do think they handled it well in The Sum of All Fears. If it was handled in a more unique way, and not just another version of Die Hard With A Vengeance or The Siege, it could work well. I don't know if you ever saw Traitor, but it was definitely an unusual take on depicting terrorism in film.

 

[James]

That sounds interesting, and I'm curious about the meeting with the Pope, and what exactly the relevance to the story was.

Yeah, I've been curious about that script ever since those tidbits were revealed. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever been leaked.

I've never seen Traitor, but may have to check it out.

 

[DocWhiskey]

Except for good ol' me!

Which, in all honesty, is quite refreshing.

 

[deckard24]

Yeah, I've been curious about that script ever since those tidbits were revealed. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever been leaked.

I've never seen Traitor, but may have to check it out.

It's not a bad film, but not great. The acting was good and the plot was compelling, but overall I wasn't blown away by it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0988047/
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/traitor/

 

[AtomicAge]

But regardless of which Indy film one considers the weakest, I do agree that they are all superior to the average modern blockbuster.

I agree with this completely. While I would put Temple of Doom at the bottom personally, it is FAR better than most films out there, particularly most films released in the last 20 or so years.

Doug

 

[TheMutt92]

Just to get a little offtrack (or would that be back on track?)... am I upset we didn't get an Indy film before KOTCS? It actually wasn't until I saw KOTCS that I thought this, and I don't mean that in a bad way. Its just that KOTCS had so much backstory compared to the other films (w/ the exception of probably Raiders). I mean, who wouldn't have wanted to have seen an Indy film w/ him and Mac running around Europe during WWII spying on the Reds (this would take away from the 'cartoon' Nazis)? I mean it would be a blend of new and old: returning characters (Mac of course, perhaps the Dean, and (dare I suggest?) his father), a more military/spy action plot, maybe even a team effort, all while somehow being caught up w/ supernatural artifacts. They still could do this film, though I would've loved for it to have come out in the mid-90's.

My feelings on this are actually similar to the lost Raiders prequel (which I think Spielberg actually wanted to make before they went the Bond route, which they ironically ditched somewhat w/ KOTCS), which would have featured Indy and Marion years before, perhaps w/ Abner and Belloq in the mix.

 

[deckard24]

I mean, who wouldn't have wanted to have seen an Indy film w/ him and Mac running around Europe during WWII spying on the Reds (this would take away from the 'cartoon' Nazis)? I mean it would be a blend of new and old: returning characters (Mac of course, perhaps the Dean, and (dare I suggest?) his father), a more military/spy action plot, maybe even a team effort, all while somehow being caught up w/ supernatural artifacts. They still could do this film, though I would've loved for it to have come out in the mid-90's.

That's not a bad idea at all! Unfortunately, we all know where Mac's loyalties lie, and it would be severely anticlimactic to have him be in a prequel, especially with how weakly he was portrayed in KOTCS. Mac could have been a great character, and Ray Winstone did the best with what he was given, but personally I think he was wasted, and might have been better off being kept a good guy instead of a traitor.

Back to your idea, what if the film dealt with Indy and maybe a different partner-in-crime, running around Europe hunting down supernatural artifacts and spying on the reds? I'd be all for that.

 

[TheMutt92]

That's not a bad idea at all! Unfortunately, we all know where Mac's loyalties lie, and it would be severely anticlimactic to have him be in a prequel, especially with how weakly he was portrayed in KOTCS. Mac could have been a great character, and Ray Winstone did the best with what he was given, but personally I think he was wasted, and might have been better off being kept a good guy instead of a traitor.

Back to your idea, what if the film dealt with Indy and maybe a different partner-in-crime, running around Europe hunting down supernatural artifacts and spying on the reds? I'd be all for that.

Well, I do think using Mac again could possibly work in a backwards sort of way (technically this would be his first appearance, and thus he would need to be fully develop, unlike some claim he was in KOTCS), and it'd be kinda cool if over the course of the film we figured things about Mac, leaving them vague until KOTCS (though that may be a long wait considering this would take place in the mid forties as opposed to the late fifties). I'd also be open to another partner, or maybe even a team of characters (some more prominent than others).

But alas, this is one film I think we can assume will never be made.

 

[Sir Galahad]

I was just watching a recent interview with Harrison Ford and for some reason I get angry and I don't know why. So I sit there and think about it. I really enjoyed Indy 4, but I get upset thinking about all the time they "wasted" when they could've been making more. I understand that they didn't want anything rushed and didn't want to make a movie just to make it. But I feel that with all the talking they did about making another one, we could've had one in the early 2000s or something...idk. I don't want to sound ungrateful...I just wish I could get more Indy.

Let me hear your opinions.

Totally agree with you. I would've loved to see at least two more Indy films before the final installment. The thing is that Indy as a character and as a franchise has so many possibilities. The comics and novels had many awesome stories that would've been awesome films.

This may sound corny, but it's the best way I can describe what I feel as a fan: Sometimes I wish I could turn back time and somehow convince the "Golden Three" to make more Indy films.

Here's hoping for a 5th

 

[WilliamBoyd8]

A good setting for a Post-Crusade film would have been in post-WW2 Europe,
where there was all kinds of loot and art laying around for Indiana Jones to find.

For example, look up the theft of the Hesse Crown Jewels.

 

[Cole]

There almost certainly would've been a drop in quality. Spielberg didn't want to do another one until recently. Bringing in another director would be a kiss of death. There's only so many great ideas/scripts.

I was just thrilled we got this last one.