Female villains- do they work in movies?

[eshine]

Misnomer:

You are worried that Salko is too pretty and not butch enough...

So you have answered your own question:

Men are obviously threatened by a woman's femininity

Seriously - if you want to see a range of bad-ass women in various roles - check out the first three seasons of the new Battlestar Galactica.

The female charcaters are smart and savvy and just as important and threatening as the males, without resorting to the sexist steriotypes that you suggest.

Starbuck is played by a tough as nails female - certainly very butch but still sexy...

But the President, played by Mary McDonnell, is probably the toughest bad-ass on the show and she couldn't be more of a "lady".

You don't have to be dissheveled and butch to be a tough woman.

 

[GlasgowChivas]

Realistically I don't expect Spalko to take the place as number 1 Indy villian - that will always be Belloq due to the fact that he and Indy were rivals, who used and abused locals to get what they want and who may have been more similar than Indy wanted to admit.

i always liked Mola Ram as a baddie because he was SO different from Belloq. And lets face it he was quite, quite creepy.

Donovan - pfft. Rubbish bad guy.

Spalko - Will be at least on-par with Mola Ram but with none of the history that Belloq was granted. Maybe some detail from Mac on her - " She's the fiercest commie they've got, she's so ruthless they has to let her into the Army - even though she's a woman!"... other than that she'll just be there to point, fence, shout orders in Russian, be a dominatrix-type interrogator and eventually die as a result of her greed.

I'm still hoping for a Raiders style climax where Blanchett gets blown up like the missionaries in Rambo but I doubt it...

 

[Finn]

"She's the fiercest commie they've got, she's so ruthless they has to let her into the Army - even though she's a woman!"

You know, that was actually the department where Soviet military was ahead of its time, it was not uncalled for to have women among its ranks since early thirties. Many even saw combat during WW II.

So a line like that coming from you or Mac would make very little sense.

Yes, I know that was simply an example, but I must admit I do find a slight pleasure in enlightening the previously ignorant...

 

[GlasgowChivas]

You know, that was actually the department where Soviet military was ahead of its time, it was not uncalled for to have women among its ranks since early thirties. Many even saw combat during WW II.

So a line like that coming from you or Mac would make very little sense.

Yes, I know that was simply an example, but I must admit I do find a slight pleasure in enlightening the previously ignorant...

Thanks for the history lesson Professor

 

[Finn]

Thanks for the history lesson Professor

Just remember that we're not here searching for the truth...

 

[GlasgowChivas]

Just remember that we're not here searching for the truth...

Im closing my eyes so you can see i have written LOVE YOU on them

 

[Finn]

Im closing my eyes so you can see i have written LOVE YOU on them

You better be female or you're NOT staying after the class!

 

[GlasgowChivas]

You better be female or you're NOT staying after the class!

Okey-Dokey Dr Jones hold onto your potatoes!

No I'm not female.

 

[Pale Horse]

Excellent use of the word 'thrash' -- and an excellent point. Our collective aversion to watching a female getting physcially beaten is the whole reason why I bet the Blanchett character was given stupid swords.

How would this rational work concerning the fight scene in the deplorable movie (yet some surprising charming moments) Mr. and Mrs. Smith, between the two aforementioned characters?

 

[Joe Brody]

So, we technically agree now that it is not unheard of after all that Spalko might wear BDUs that seem a little "oldish" for the fifties? To be honest, I'm not even surprised, knowing the history of the Soviet Union.

I agree the fundamental Soviet/Russian design principle is if it isn't broke don't fix it. I respect that (being half Russian). So if the Spalko uniform is dated (it just appears that the cut was chosen to make it look more 'Russian'), there is a good counter-argument that things didn't change all that fast in the Soviet Union. However, Spalko's presumably an officer and you can go back to your Tolstoy to confirm that there is a long history of Russian Officers being vain and having stylish, well tailored uniforms (unless Spalko's character is a sleep on the hay prol type character, which could easily be the case -- but if so, she shouldn't be using a sword because no self respecting Prol would use a sword).

How would this rational work concerning the fight scene in the deplorable movie (yet some surprising charming moments) Mr. and Mrs. Smith, between the two aforementioned characters?

Speak for yourself. Mr. and Mrs. Smith is a great movie -- and I'm glad you brought it up. During the big bring-down-the-house fight, the most brutal violence between the couple is admittedly hidden behind an overturned couch. But Jolie does take a few blows during that fight.. . . and I'd argue the audience doesn't mind -- we don't avert our eyes. I'd argue that's the case because we can identify with Jolie on a human level. She's got blood in her veins. She's human. Jolie projects moxie. What kills me is how everyone gushes over the super talented Blanchett -- but I've watched all her movies and all I see is a very technically proficient actress going through the motions. I never care about her characters. I wouldn't want to see Blanchett get the same beating that Jolie took -- because I see a 'type' -- a female. Jolie, to me, on the other hand, is real. And she's tough, and she can take the beating.

It's all subjective. I'd say Julianne Moore could take a beating -- but not Gwyneth Paltrow. Reese Witherspoon but not Mandy Moore, etc.

 

[Nurhachi1991]

i have to say no im not sexist but i personally do not think a female lead villian would work



imagine if Mola Rom was a women........... yeah i diddnt like it either

 

[FordFan]

You guys may not have heard of her, but I know someone who is every bit as formidable as Irina Spalko.

 

[Finn]

However, Spalko's presumably an officer and you can go back to your Tolstoy to confirm that there is a long history of Russian Officers being vain and having stylish, well tailored uniforms (unless Spalko's character is a sleep on the hay prol type character, which could easily be the case -- but if so, she shouldn't be using a sword because no self respecting Prol would use a sword).

Perhaps at the times of Tolstoy, but during WW II for example the officers wore same garments as their subordinates, and wasn't it the same thing in every army? Standing out would just make you a target. Spalko's clothing would probably be unappropiate for a ball in the Winter Palace, but isn't that out in the wilderness.

However, you're right, the sword messes all this logic up. For one, it's not very Russian in the first place and definitely makes one stand out. Oh well, this is Indiana Jones, not Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan where things out of the ordinary would be... just that. (Still the history buff in me is crying.)

You guys may not have heard of her, but I know someone who is every bit as formidable as Irina Spalko.

The Great Ctulthu?

 

[Deckard]

You guys may not have heard of her, but I know someone who is every bit as formidable as Irina Spalko.

Looks like she just looked into the ark.

 

[|ZiR|]

I think I'd like it if Spalko's more like Mola Ram than anyone else. Y'know, flatout old school evil. Like, insane "I-regret-nothing!" kind of evil. Very black and white. I don't want another Elsa.

No redeeming death scene for Blanchett, thanks.

But, all worries aside, I find Cate to be a very capable actor. And while she probably wouldn't have been my first choice for the role, I am not unhappy with about it.

The wig's a bit much, though. It looks so cheap and trampy to me, which is exceedingly silly considering that it's got to be an absolutely high quaility piece.

Maybe if I didn't know who Cate Blanchett was, and that she didn't cut her real hair. Snrk. Yeah, right. And maybe I'd been living under a rock in small Azerbaijani village for the past 9 years.

 

[eshine]

Sad

This thread is "presumably" a discussion about female roles and whether or not a female villian could be "convincing enough" for the Iniana Jones tough boys posting on an internet blog...

That's sad enough - but it sure didn't take long for this to dissolve into a series of sexist diatribes by bloggers who, I suspect, haven't the experience or knowledge to judge women in the slightest bit...

This whole thread has been transparaent and sexist.

For proof of this - read the responses (or lack of) by misnomer.

Particularly his comments about the Ripley character of the Aliens series:

They are just off the mark and foolish:

sooo, She acted too butch while protecting a child in Aliens (huh?)- but brave and hard ass killing herself in the ATROCIOUS Alien 3????

To you - a woman is weak in a protective role - but "BAD ASS" in a surrender role?

This speaks volumes.

Dude - you should not be doing commentary about cinema. You also have much to learn about women, as you come across as extremely threatened by any womAn who doesn't fit into your mold. If this weren't the case - you would have never started this thread.

As for some of you others... yawn. yawn. yawn.

Posting photos of Senator Clinton may have seemed clever - but it only makes you look like sniveling schoolboys with nothing to bring to the table.

Spalko could probably kick most of your asses...

 

[Pale Horse]

Speak for yourself. Mr. and Mrs. Smith is a great movie -- and I'm glad you brought it up. During the big bring-down-the-house fight, the most brutal violence between the couple is admittedly hidden behind an overturned couch. But Jolie does take a few blows during that fight.. . . and I'd argue the audience doesn't mind -- we don't avert our eyes. I'd argue that's the case because we can identify with Jolie on a human level. She's got blood in her veins. She's human. Jolie projects moxie. What kills me is how everyone gushes over the super talented Blanchett -- but I've watched all her movies and all I see is a very technically proficient actress going through the motions. I never care about her characters. I wouldn't want to see Blanchett get the same beating that Jolie took -- because I see a 'type' -- a female. Jolie, to me, on the other hand, is real. And she's tough, and she can take the beating.

It's all subjective. I'd say Julianne Moore could take a beating -- but not Gwyneth Paltrow. Reese Witherspoon but not Mandy Moore, etc.

I totally agree here, I bring this up as an example of how women can take a beating, without playing on deep root sentiment of the protecting the maternal nature.

Now, how Freudian is the couch in that scene.

 

[Paden]

What kills me is how everyone gushes over the super talented Blanchett -- but I've watched all her movies and all I see is a very technically proficient actress going through the motions. I never care about her characters.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that has this perception. The press regarding Blanchett's acting chops is practically unavoidable, but I'll readily admit that the majority of the characters she depicts never snag my emotions in any significant way. That said, I'm sure she'll put in a serviceable performance as Spalko. In fact, with regards to my subjective sense of her characterizations, it may be a perfect role for her.

Now, how Freudian is the couch in that scene.

Heh.

With regard to the broader discussion at hand, I think Joe hit the nail on the head. It's going to be very subjective for viewers, based on whatever personal baggage they carry and their perception of individual performers. Jolie is a fine example of someone who can engage in full fledged combat without causing much of the audience to flinch. Ultimately, it boils down to how much of that mercurial "moxie" moviegoers believe a given actress possesses.

 

[deckard24]

I think they work just as good as male villains, if the character is written well! It's only because there's a disproportinate number of male villains to female villains in cinema, that we are having this conversation. I think Blanchett/Spalko will be great and a welcome change! Plus, I'm just anxious to see Marion lay her out once, with that strong right hook of hers!!

As for memorable female villains, how about these characters: Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Wicked Witch of the West, Baby Jane/Bette Davis from Whatever Happened to Baby Jane, The White Witch from The Chronicles of Narnia, Tilda Swinton in Michael Clayton, Kathy Bates in Misery, Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction, (As already mentioned)Rebecca Romijn from X-Men 2, Evelyn from Play Misty for Me, and Michelle Pfieffer as Catwoman and the Witch in Batman Returns and Stardust.

 

[GlasgowChivas]

What kills me is how everyone gushes over the super talented Blanchett -- but I've watched all her movies and all I see is a very technically proficient actress going through the motions. I never care about her characters.

Watch Notes On A Scandal for a Blanchett performance where you will care. Her character is unsympathetic, a cheat, technically a child molester but you will feel for her