General Indy 5 Thread - rumors and possibilities

[indyjones2131]

All this talk of prequels or CG wrikle creams or is he too old...

No. No. No.

We've seen Indy young. We've seen Indy mature. We've seen Indy get older. Let's see him as old. Let's see him wrinkles and all. A relic living in changed times. Hell maybe even a beard.

The set pieces in these movies are great, but it's the character of Indy that keeps us on these websites. So let's see that character evolve. For all the problems with KOTCS, chief among them is the fact that the character of Indy didn't shine through. They seemed too scared to take any chances in that regard so just had him regurgitate dialog from the other movies.

You can't recapture things like that. You have to let the character and creativity go where it needs to - in new directions. That's what makes for exciting movie watching especially in the fifth entry of a 30 year series.

Now of course this will never happen. Hollywood doesn't take chances. They'll try to capture that same ROTLA magic and fail once again.

 

[Raiders90]

A little OT but does anyone feel the character, or characterization, of Indy changed after Raiders?
In some ways at times in ALL the sequels, it doesn't feel like the same mysterious, gritty, nearly remorseless character. Indy in Raiders is much more quiet, enigmatic and interesting in Raiders. A darker character. More hardened, less humorless.

He became sort of a caricacture in TLC (as did Marcus and Sallah), and IMO, the Indy we see (from a character/characterization perspective) in KOTCS doesn't even resemble the quiet, intimidating man with the hat in Raiders. The guy who responded to an attempt on his life with the sudden crack of a whip and a menacing glare. He's gone soft by KOTCS.

Indy as a character has become more and more of a cartoon with each film, whereas in Raiders he's more of a "Man with No Name" type. Maybe it's the different screenwriters, I don't know, but I prefer Raiders' characterization of Indy.

 

[Darth Vile]

A little OT but does anyone feel the character, or characterization, of Indy changed after Raiders?
In some ways at times in ALL the sequels, it doesn't feel like the same mysterious, gritty, nearly remorseless character. Indy in Raiders is much more quiet, enigmatic and interesting in Raiders. A darker character. More hardened, less humorless.

He became sort of a caricacture in TLC (as did Marcus and Sallah), and IMO, the Indy we see (from a character/characterization perspective) in KOTCS doesn't even resemble the quiet, intimidating man with the hat in Raiders. The guy who responded to an attempt on his life with the sudden crack of a whip and a menacing glare. He's gone soft by KOTCS.

Indy as a character has become more and more of a cartoon with each film, whereas in Raiders he's more of a "Man with No Name" type. Maybe it's the different screenwriters, I don't know, but I prefer Raiders' characterization of Indy.

if anything, the character has developed. The Indy we see in Raiders is not a fully rounded character and is very much 'in development'. It's basically Han Solo in a hat. By default it may mean he seems more mysterious, perhaps perceived as being more violent/deadly... but it's something you can only really get away with for 1 or 2 movies.

 

[indyjones2131]

The character has changed, but developed? Not in my opinion. His character was much more authentic, complicated and interesting in Raiders.

 

[Raiders90]

The character has changed, but developed? Not in my opinion. His character was much more authentic, complicated and interesting in Raiders.

This.
Also, the fact that some of the lines in TLC, and KOTCS don't even feel like things the Indy of Raiders would say, and that (IMO, not sure if it's a fact) Harrison Ford had some sort of face work done between Raiders and ToD, doesn't help.

He's watered down more and more with each film. He seems "old" and tired by TLC.

 

[Stoo]

A little OT but...

More than "a little". You could have just revived your own thread from 3 months ago where you said the same thing: Raiders vs. its sequels and prequel

Having not yet seen the new "Tron" movie, I don't know how successful Jeff Bridges de-aging looks. Depending on how convincing it is, I might be open to the possibility of the process being used for an Indy 5 set in the '40s. Otherwise, I'll take an older Indy with no problem at all...

 

[JuniorJones]

More than "a little". You could have just revived your own thread from 3 months ago where you said the same thing: Raiders vs. its sequels and prequel

Having not yet seen the new "Tron" movie, I don't know how successful Jeff Bridges de-aging looks. Depending on how convincing it is, I might be open to the possibility of the process being used for an Indy 5 set in the '40s. Otherwise, I'll take an older Indy with no problem at all...

Tron Legacy, as with Skull..

.."How far we all come. How far we all come away from ourselves. You can never go home again."

 

[Darth Vile]

The character has changed, but developed? Not in my opinion. His character was much more authentic, complicated and interesting in Raiders.

I think the character of Indiana Jones has always been largely 2-diemensional and painted with broad brush strokes. I'd also posit that one of the reasons Raiders works so well is because of the superficial characterisation of Indiana Jones i.e. we don't need to understand him or his motivations. He hasn't got hidden depths that need to be mined in order for the movie 'to work' and he certainly isn't complicated (IMHO)... as he's basically the modern equivalent of a pirate/treasure hunter. He, like Marion, is a simple pastiche of a generic action/adventure character that cinema goers have been watching for decades... and that's why it works so well.

However, for me at least, TLC and KOTCS do try to expand upon the template character created in Raiders (mainly out of necessity due to the inclusion of Connery in TLC and Ford's age in KOTCS). This of course doesn't make them better movies, but conversely, just because the movies may not be as good doesn't negate the character development that was achieved in those stories. For example (in TLC specifically) we get some emotional conflict of the father/son dynamic (even if largely played for laughs)... in that our rugged adventurer who knows no fear (apart from snakes) feels isolated/ostracized by his own father... We get a sense that perhaps Indy is the way he is because his father was cold with him as a child/young man. So yes... I'd posit that the Indy, who at the end of the movie is prepared to "let it go", constitutes a modicum of character development (within the context of these movies).

 

[indyjones2131]

Point taken, but I think mine may have been missed a bit. I don't think Raiders alone represents the only good character stuff with Indy (though I think I give it way more credit in that regard than you seem to). My point is ToD and LC gave us new and interesting facets and directions for the character while KOTCS seemed afraid to, save for the lazy and awkward references to the original trilogy.

I'd love to see Indy 5 take some chances. Show us new facets of the Indy character. Let him be old.

 

[Darth Vile]

Point taken, but I think mine may have been missed a bit. I don't think Raiders alone represents the only good character stuff with Indy (though I think I give it way more credit in that regard than you seem to). My point is ToD and LC gave us new and interesting facets and directions for the character while KOTCS seemed afraid to, save for the lazy and awkward references to the original trilogy.

I'd love to see Indy 5 take some chances. Show us new facets of the Indy character. Let him be old.

I'd certainly agree that I'd like to have seen KOTCS take more chances, and I agree that if they make another Indy movie, I'd like to think they'd try something new. However, and this is only my view, as it stands I don't think the character of Indiana Jones is significant enough to justify a "character piece" movie where you'd get that exploration similar to 'Gran Torino', 'Carlito's Way', 'Raging Bull' or even 'The Shootist' i.e. an Indy movie is only ever going to contain token development (as anything more significant would just get in the way of explosions and chases). Ultimately, If Indiana Jones is represented as too old to jump out of a window or hang onto the back of a truck (or too old for it to be believable), what's an Indy movie got left to offer other than drab/unconvincing set pieces? And I think that's the big dilemma of using Ford i.e. he needs to be doing more character led stuff rather than action. But is that the right direction for an Indiana Jones movie???

Also, I'd imagine that the cinema going public (and yes I'd agree that they shouldn't be the barometer of quality) don't really want an Indy movie exploring the themes of growing old, relationships, love and death (as with the examples above). They simply want a good yarn (told with panache) with Indy jumping on the back of tanks, trucks etc. and dodging booby traps... (which is what made Raiders so great in the first place).

 

[Hanselation]

Harrison Ford says about himself, he is a physical actor -and still he is!!
I saw him last week in Berlin and believe me, he still is fit enough to play the Indiana Jones action role and it would be also believable for the audience.

The fault is, there is no script till now and in a few years, we should think about what will happen if Harrison is not fit enough.

But for the moment it does not make sense to discuss about the fitness of Harrison!

It's on George to start the run!

 

[Darth Vile]

Harrison Ford says about himself, he is a physical actor -and still he is!!
I saw him last week in Berlin and believe me, he still is fit enough to play the Indiana Jones action role and it would be also believable for the audience.

The fault is, there is no script till now and in a few years, we should think about what will happen if Harrison is not fit enough.

But for the moment it does not make sense to discuss about the fitness of Harrison!

It's on George to start the run!

He may look great for his age (certainly looking better than my grandparents do), and I'm sure he's probably fitter than me... but that doesn't stop him being 70 + or being less fit than he was in Raiders and TOD... which makes the suspension of disbelief a little harder to achieve. I'll sign up for a new Indy movie, but one has to recognise that Harrison isn't the physical actor he once was. I think he just about got away with it in KOTCS.

 

[indyjones2131]

I'd certainly agree that I'd like to have seen KOTCS take more chances, and I agree that if they make another Indy movie, I'd like to think they'd try something new. However, and this is only my view, as it stands I don't think the character of Indiana Jones is significant enough to justify a "character piece" movie where you'd get that exploration similar to 'Gran Torino', 'Carlito's Way', 'Raging Bull' or even 'The Shootist' i.e. an Indy movie is only ever going to contain token development (as anything more significant would just get in the way of explosions and chases). Ultimately, If Indiana Jones is represented as too old to jump out of a window or hang onto the back of a truck (or too old for it to be believable), what's an Indy movie got left to offer other than drab/unconvincing set pieces? And I think that's the big dilemma of using Ford i.e. he needs to be doing more character led stuff rather than action. But is that the right direction for an Indiana Jones movie???

Also, I'd imagine that the cinema going public (and yes I'd agree that they shouldn't be the barometer of quality) don't really want an Indy movie exploring the themes of growing old, relationships, love and death (as with the examples above). They simply want a good yarn (told with panache) with Indy jumping on the back of tanks, trucks etc. and dodging booby traps... (which is what made Raiders so great in the first place).

You're 100% correct. Any Indy movie should NEVER lose the things that make it an Indy movie especially the awesome action set pieces. I'm not suggesting that at all. But that's not to say they should try to hide the fact that he is older. Again I think I see more dimensions to the character of Indy than you do, but I think we can all agree that it's his human sides and vulnerabilities that contribute as much as anything to the reason we love these films so much. The very fact that the other films could balance a human character with heroics like they did is part of what makes them so special.

That's all I'm asking for here plus the addition of the fact that this character that we've watched grow older is now old. They can handle that using the same action/character ratio that they used in 1, 2, and 3. But let's take that chance. Let's not try to recapture something that happened 30 years ago.

 

[Darth Vile]

You're 100% correct. Any Indy movie should NEVER lose the things that make it an Indy movie especially the awesome action set pieces. I'm not suggesting that at all. But that's not to say they should try to hide the fact that he is older. Again I think I see more dimensions to the character of Indy than you do, but I think we can all agree that it's his human sides and vulnerabilities that contribute as much as anything to the reason we love these films so much. The very fact that the other films could balance a human character with heroics like they did is part of what makes them so special.

That's all I'm asking for here plus the addition of the fact that this character that we've watched grow older is now old. They can handle that using the same action/character ratio that they used in 1, 2, and 3. But let's take that chance. Let's not try to recapture something that happened 30 years ago.

Yeah - I think we're basically arguing the same thing. We both seem to be in agreement that any new Indy movie featuring Harrison Ford, for us, would have to reflect his advancing years in the overall narrative (and not just in a perfunctory way). However, the difference for me is that I just don't think an Indy movie can possibly achieve this in a way that keeps the general masses happy. Could they make a Indiana Jones movie (with Ford in role) in the same vein as 'The Shootist', the re-imaged 'True Grit', 'Gran Torino' or 'Unforgiven' ? Yes I think they could... and I'd love to see that style of movie. I'm just not convinced it would be an Indy movie that the masses would ever buy into. It's far more likely that Ford will play that role (similar to what Wayne and Eastwood did), in a totally different movie in the guise of a totally different character... and it will probably be all the better for it. Again - I hope I'm proved wrong.

 

[Mungi]

Same old, same old...

"Give the hat to Shia? What are you talking about?" he grinned. "It's mine. It's not necessary to give him the fedora."

With the script for Indiana Jones 5 still being written, the fate of the intrepid adventurer still isn't clear but Harrison is keen to keep the character interesting by bringing in new faces for him to knock up against.

"Shia is a new character who gives you another chance to explore the relationships in the film," he explained. It invigorates the series in the way it was invigorated by bringing in Sean Connery to play my father."

But there's no way he's passing on Indiana's battered headgear to anyone.

"He can get a hat of his own," said Harrison. "I earned that hat."

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/showbi...dull-away-from-the-big-screen-86908-22850950/

 

[Montana Smith]

Give the hat to the dog and let him chew on it. (And I do mean the dog, not the Mutt).

It'll be for the best in the end, as I can't see George giving us what we really want.

With Indy 5 there may be new action figures. But what will Indy's action feature be: press the button and his hip breaks?

 

[indy4242]

My guess is, there will be no Indy 5 news until Cowboys and Aliens comes out. Harrison Ford in a hat, fighting aliens, and everything - even if it doesn't make a ridiculous amount of money (which it will) ], it will kickstart general public interest in another Indiana Jones.

Yes, Lucas is slow, but as someone else oh here said, he's also competitive. If he thinks Favreau is encroaching on his turf, he'll get that Indy V made.

 

[Indy's brother]

Same old, same old...

Yeah, no kidding.

 

[Moedred]

Same old, same old...

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/showbi...dull-away-from-the-big-screen-86908-22850950/

Ford repeats himself, but these quotes are poorly cribbed from his Time interview a year ago. I even wonder if the ironically named "Daily Record" interviewed him at all.

 

[Indy's brother]

Ford repeats himself, but these quotes are poorly cribbed from his Time interview a year ago. I even wonder if the ironically named "Daily Record" interviewed him at all.

That was my assessment as well. I just didn't feel like quoting and linking your LiveJournal page again, Moe.