Indiana Jones and the plot holes of doom

[bob]

'allo

I was rewatching LC the other week and i just couldnt stop criticisng the plot, yes i know it is only an action film but still it makes little sense.

Portugese Coast

1. OK so the boat has explosives on board, but surely they would be moored a little more safely, and isnt it a little bit convenient that Indy jumps off at the exact time that the boat explodes.
2. Indys plan wasnt very well thought out, rather than meet the boat in port he plans to stowaway on board in a terrible storm and then escape by jumping into the sea god knows how many miles off shore, what good does he think jumping into the sea will do? (and i dont think that there are waves that height close to shore)
3. Despite the fact that the boat explodes and from a certain perspective would appear to blow up Indy, and by rights he should be insinerated. But still he is left in the middle of the ocean with a life jacket.... ohhh how helpful.

Venice

4. What was the point of kidnapping Henry when a nazi agent was looking over his shoulder and he was on the point of discovering the knights tomb, and how exactly did he get a chance to send off the diary but still be working before he vanished.
5. Why dont they just kidnap Indy and Marcus when they land? Of course somepeople may say that this was because only Indy could find the tomb as he had the diary, but wouldnt the nazis with the resources of a whole nation have more expertise than one man.
6. What is the role of the brotherhood in all of this? they somehow know where Henry is being held but seem to be ignorant of the fact that the nazis are after the grail at all, the logical conclusion from this is that they are co-operating with the nazis. They also knock out Marcus and then do absolutely nothing.

Germany

7. Henry has been held for at least weeks, and they have done nothing with him; they have not mistreated him or even tried to extract information on the numbers, these people are supposed to be ruthless for goodness sake. If they had just left Henry on the project then it is likely that they would have located the knights tomb and be well on their way to finding the grail and Indy need never be involved.
8. Why does the castle have secret rooms in which the Nazis are in, what possible reason could there be to keep it secret?
9. Why not keep Indy and Henry under watch in the control room rather than on their own in the most flammable room in the history of the world (TM)
10. Why wasnt Indy and Henry arrested on the Zepplin before it turned around, after all they are public enemy number one in Germany.
11. Why were fighters sent after Indy and Henry, wouldnt it have been far more effective just to tell the crew to secure the Bi-plane
12. Judging by the landscape the plane chase is not in Germany, but the planes strafe and bomb the areas with complete impunity.

Yes i know it is nitpicking but i needed just to get that off my chest, and whatever the genre the plot should hang together.

 

[raydelark]

This is a fun list Bob

On the positive side, all the Indy movies expertly pay an incredible-genius tribute to the genre in the way that all the incredible things that I watched for the first time seemed so amazingly believable. As I grow and learn from watching them, I love them more and more for the flaws that fooled me. Whoao!

"I Wanna Be Like Indiana Jones"

 

[Coldfyre]

I've got one to add... how come everyone on the zeppelin understands Indy when he says "No ticket!" in English?

 

[Lightning]

Some of these nits are legitimate, however there are a few that are not. If you will allow me I'll explain.

All legitimate nits about Portuguese coast.

Venice

4. What was the point of kidnapping Henry when a nazi agent was looking over his shoulder and he was on the point of discovering the knights tomb, and how exactly did he get a chance to send off the diary but still be working before he vanished?

-Henry was not kidnapped in the library. When Henry realized Elsa was a Nazi he destroyed his research and sent the Diary off to Indy. The only thing he didn?t destroy was the III, VII, X scrap perhaps by accident, thus the Nazi?s got that. Elsa made everything else up

5. Why don?t they just kidnap Indy and Marcus when they land? Of course some people may say that this was because only Indy could find the tomb as he had the diary, but wouldn?t the Nazis with the resources of a whole nation have more expertise than one man?

-They got Henry because he was better than the German experts. The Germans have the recourses but not the time it would take to do the research.

6. What is the role of the brotherhood in all of this? They somehow know where Henry is being held but seem to be ignorant of the fact that the Nazis are after the grail at all; the logical conclusion from this is that they are co-operating with the Nazis. They also knock out Marcus and then do absolutely nothing.

-All the brotherhood is concerned with is protecting the grail from ANYONE. They knock out Marcus so he can?t yell and warn Indy.

Germany

7. Henry has been held for at least weeks, and they have done nothing with him; they have not mistreated him or even tried to extract information on the numbers, these people are supposed to be ruthless for goodness sake. If they had just left Henry on the project then it is likely that they would have located the knights tomb and be well on their way to finding the grail and Indy need never be involved.

-Don?t know why they didn?t torture him but he left the project they didn?t take him off.

8. Why does the castle have secret rooms in which the Nazis are in, what possible reason could there be to keep it secret?

-The fireplace is not the only entrance to that room it?s only a secret exit.

9. Why not keep Indy and Henry under watch in the control room rather than on their own in the most flammable room in the history of the world (TM)

-I have no idea

10. Why wasnt Indy and Henry arrested on the Zepplin before it turned around, after all they are public enemy number one in Germany.

-The radio remember? They were not turning around to arrest Henry, they were turning around because ?someone? sabotaged the radio.

11. Why were fighters sent after Indy and Henry, wouldnt it have been far more effective just to tell the crew to secure the Bi-plane.

-No radio means no telling the crew that there is anyone on board to catch.

12. Judging by the landscape the plane chase is not in Germany, but the planes strafe and bomb the areas with complete impunity.

-I don?t know about the landscape but judging by the flight time they had to still be in Germany.

 

[Finn]

12. Judging by the landscape the plane chase is not in Germany, but the planes strafe and bomb the areas with complete impunity.

Historical Note:
By 1938, the Sudete parts of Chechoslovakia and Austria were already part of the Reich. They were invaded with no shots fired. So of course Nazi planes behave on these areas with complete impunity.

 

[raydelark]

I'm still alive. [/B]

Gluma bailacolama ra schcle balaco pop.

 

[nOOb]

heres a couple of plotholes:

was the nazi pilot who flew his plane through the tunnel some kind of kamikazi? i thought only the japanese did that...and he had plenty of time to pull up and over the hill. he crashed on purpose.

and the motorcycle chase was cool but didnt make sense. the nazis could have just shot at indy & dad from behind. why did the one dude wait until indy speared him to try and shoot? same for the last one, he didnt have to do a wheelie.

plus, i dont think indy could have opened his eyes in all that gasoline in the crypt. wouldnt it sting him like crazy?

[Edited by nOOb on 11-22-2003 at 08:16 pm]

 

[Lightning]

The Nazi pilot was following the car around the side of the hill. I don't think he was expecting the hill to jut out again so quickly (that is a weak argument but that is the best I can do)
I was going to say the the motorcycle chace was fine because they were trying to catch them alive but at that time they still had orders to kill them right? Hmm.
The gasoline: petroleum products are less dense than water so they float on the surface. Once Indy goes under he can open his eyes.

 

[nOOb]

hmmm, maybe the pilot didnt see the tunnel coming. just looks suspicious to me.

"The gasoline: petroleum products are less dense than water so they float on the surface. Once Indy goes under he can open his eyes."

ah, i thought it was all gasoline. didnt realize it was water underneath.

 

[Finn]

Gluma bailacolama ra schcle balaco pop.

I'm sure there is something wise behind this... I'm just unable to dig it out.

 

[intergamer]

To me, the plot holes make it fun - it shows that the movies don't take themselves too seriously. And some mistakes are ignored by the directors on purpose, since its a throwback to the old adventure serials. They just make the story more fun.

I love this thread though - while I think the plot holes are beneficial to the fun of the movie, I've always thought its a lot of fun to think about the errors and possible explanation.

 

[bob]

5. Why don?t they just kidnap Indy and Marcus when they land? Of course some people may say that this was because only Indy could find the tomb as he had the diary, but wouldn?t the Nazis with the resources of a whole nation have more expertise than one man?

-They got Henry because he was better than the German experts. The Germans have the recourses but not the time it would take to do the research.

Indiana Jones is no doubt a very unpopular man in Germany, after the Ark and god knows what other mischief. But still he is brought in for no real reason, he is a good archaeologist but he isnt so good that the nazis would bring in this infamous figure; surely they would only bring him in because he had the diary which doesnt make sense as they could have just got the diary when he landed.


[/B][/QUOTE]
6. What is the role of the brotherhood in all of this? They somehow know where Henry is being held but seem to be ignorant of the fact that the Nazis are after the grail at all; the logical conclusion from this is that they are co-operating with the Nazis. They also knock out Marcus and then do absolutely nothing.

-All the brotherhood is concerned with is protecting the grail from ANYONE. They knock out Marcus so he can?t yell and warn Indy.
[/B][/QUOTE]

The fact remains that the brotherhood clearly did not act against Henry and Elsa in Venice, but act in the most extravogant ott way possible when Indy turns up.
They know that Henry was after the Grail and the Nazis but inexplicably dont appear to have worked out what is going on at all.

[/B][/QUOTE]
8. Why does the castle have secret rooms in which the Nazis are in, what possible reason could there be to keep it secret?

-The fireplace is not the only entrance to that room it?s only a secret exit.
[/B][/QUOTE]

OK then, why does a nazi castle need a secret exit?

[/B][/QUOTE]
10. Why wasnt Indy and Henry arrested on the Zepplin before it turned around, after all they are public enemy number one in Germany.

-The radio remember? They were not turning around to arrest Henry, they were turning around because ?someone? sabotaged the radio.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Point taken but surely they would have leapt to the conclusion that the strangely physcoic ticket taker who speaks in English would have something to do with it.

This is a fun exercise

 

[Coldfyre]

In response to the whole "why does the Nazi castle need a secret exit?" question, I think the secret passages and the castle itself had been built long before the Nazis decided to set up there. So they just happened to have secret passage in the castle they were in. This does kind of make one wonder about that wire connected to the chair leg, though... I guess that chair hasn't been moved even a few feet since the castle was built.

 

[nOOb]

heres a big plothole: when indy and co. find out theres a thuggee ceremony going on in ToD, they just wait around until it breaks up and then try to steal the stones. why didnt they go get captain blumbert and the 11th puma rifles right away?
(thats the name of the cavalry unit, from the IJ-ToD sourcebook)

 

[MP3]

heres a big plothole: when indy and co. find out theres a thuggee ceremony going on in ToD, they just wait around until it breaks up and then try to steal the stones. why didnt they go get captain blumbert and the 11th puma rifles right away?
(thats the name of the cavalry unit, from the IJ-ToD sourcebook)

Simple: they didn't leave the scene because of shock/fear - i.e. y'know how all these novels say "eyes wide, he watched in horror as etc." or "His eyes remained glued to the scene unfolding before him. His mind was screaming 'Run!' but his body remained stiff as if he were paralyzed, unable to move." OK, maybe I'm starting to get a bit carried away here, but you get the picture - sometimes, human nature dictates that you will stay and watch whatever it is until its completion, without running anywhere.

As for why they didn't go get Capt. Dumbutt, perhaps Indy thought he had first better get the stones before anything could go wrong, and then he would call for "backup". After all, if not for him hearing the children scream, he may never have gotten stuck down there in the first place...

 

[nOOb]

youre right about the children distracting indy, but i think it was greed that kept him from going for help. i doubt blumburt would let him even return the village stone, once he knew they were diamonds. they would be confiscated in the name of the queen or something lol.

and why did he toss a rock at the turbaned dude? thats just asking for trouble.

 

[MP3]

and why did he toss a rock at the turbaned dude? thats just asking for trouble.

It's a little something we call "anger". Even the best of us tend to act irrationally when we get really angry about something - and someone as good-hearted as Indy could not tolerate the children suffering in such an unjust manner.

 

[bob]

I really need to get these plot holes and questions off my chest or i will never be able to fully enjoy an Indy film again, but it is quite fun


Raiders

1. A plane going right round the world in the 1930's to Nepal..... right
2. Why do the army guys want Indy to go after the Ark, they dont seem particularly religious and seem just interested in it because of the ravenwood connection. I mean they must know what Indy is capable of and the consequences of his actions if the Germans ever find out he was working for the US government.
3. How does Toht get to the out of the way bar in the middle of nowhere only minutes after Indy?
4. Egypt was a British protectorate at this time, and would not allow a Nazi military presence.
5. Why did the Egyptians make the headpiece in the first place?
6. On the Greek Island in the procession of only a dozen or so soldiers wouldnt the rest of the soldiers notice Indy either because his picture was posted around everywhere or that he was an unfamiliar sight
7. Why do they let Indy live? he has killed countless members of them
8. Why does Indy bring the Ark back to the USA, surely he would realise that such power should not be given to anyone. Wouldnt it have been far better to knock it off a ship or something?


ToD

1. Why does Willy come with Indy? He takes her because she has the antidote but inexplicably leaves her club behind and goes with strangers on a plane.
2. Where is the plane going?
3. Why does Lao Che make them crash the plane, they dont grow on trees you know. Wouldnt it have been better for the pilots just to shoot them
4. Arent the pilots committing suicide by leaping out of their plane over the himlayas
5. Was Indy turning up destiny or just a self furfilling prophecy?

 

[Venture]

And I thought we were supposed to enjoy movies. Just kidding. You do pose some posers there, bob.

 

[DaBrode]

Bob...check these answers out.

Raiders

1. A plane going right round the world in the 1930's to Nepal..... right

Was it only one plane? hmmm.

2. Why do the army guys want Indy to go after the Ark, they dont seem particularly religious and seem just interested in it because of the ravenwood connection. I mean they must know what Indy is capable of and the consequences of his actions if the Germans ever find out he was working for the US government.

The Ark was a weapon and the US Government wanted it first. After finding out what it did...they boxed it for a later day.

3. How does Toht get to the out of the way bar in the middle of nowhere only minutes after Indy?

His plane left a few minutes after Indy's? How often the obvious possibilities elude us. They were both after the same piece...the Nazi's actually had been seeking the headpiece longer. If anything...Indy had "cut them off at the pass."

4. Egypt was a British protectorate at this time, and would not allow a Nazi military presence.

Egypt is a rather vast land and it's quite possible their presence went unnoticed. Remember this is pre-satelite imaging.

5. Why did the Egyptians make the headpiece in the first place?

It was part of the map. X marks the spot on a pirates map...headpiece marks it on the Egyptian map. I think it was a more complicated way of hiding the ark and giving the key (but not the location) to one individual.

6. On the Greek Island in the procession of only a dozen or so soldiers wouldnt the rest of the soldiers notice Indy either because his picture was posted around everywhere or that he was an unfamiliar sight?

The answer to this is also obvious. It's "No". I see milk carton kiddies and America's Most Wanted all the time. I doubt I'd recognize any one of them. You could argue I'm not in the military or "on guard" so this is why I don't pay close attention to them. I would return on that by saying those Guards also don't have Television's to spread Indy's pic around nor closed circuit security systems to monitor the area. Might they have recognized him? Maybe but not necessarily.

7. Why do they let Indy live? he has killed countless members of them

I assume you mean at the climax when the Ark is opened. Indy is left alive for one simple reason. Belloq wants Indy to see as he reveals the secrets to the greatest archiological find of all time. Belloq keeps Indy alive, you can bet.

8. Why does Indy bring the Ark back to the USA, surely he would realise that such power should not be given to anyone. Wouldnt it have been far better to knock it off a ship or something?

I believe he feels, as Belloq felt, that it needs to be explored further. Indy was smart enough to know that he alone did not possess the knowledge nor faith (A-ha!) to do this. He hoped to get the great minds of the world to assist under the protection of the US government and rather they treated it as a threat and boxed it away. Hence: "They don't know what they've got there..."


ToD

1. Why does Willy come with Indy? He takes her because she has the antidote but inexplicably leaves her club behind and goes with strangers on a plane.

This is a tough one to defend. I guess I'd have to say that when being kidnapped you don't argue...ya just go where your pushed.

2. Where is the plane going?

Does Dan Akroyd's character say? I forget. At any rate...anywhere is better than there. I would guess it didn't go where it was supposed to because Lao Che contacted the pilots with the situation.

3. Why does Lao Che make them crash the plane, they dont grow on trees you know. Wouldnt it have been better for the pilots just to shoot them.

Did they have guns? Why didn't they just kill them you ask?....hmmm not sure I can answer this. If it were now-a-days I'd say it's because a plane crash is much less suspicious as far as murder goes. But I can't say that holds valid for that time period.

4. Arent the pilots committing suicide by leaping out of their plane over the himlayas

Not if this was planned and they are being picked up...or dropped over a secret camp. Who knows where they went. Didn't have to do with the plot so why get into it.

5. Was Indy turning up destiny or just a self furfilling prophecy?

Does it matter? Thats the wonder of it. Strange coincidence or arranged by a higher power.



As goofy as some things can sound when posed as "plot holes" they can also be made sense of when a bit more story is added. Point being...the plot holes we list are not holes that can't be made sense of...rather simply irrelevant material to Indy's true story.