Indy 4 on DVD

[IndyFan89]

Two words: Color correction

I'm curious to know, is that De-saturation?

 

[Laserschwert]

I'm not particularly thrilled with what was done here. The highlights have been blown out even more than they were, the blacks have been crushed, and the whole image sharpened, giving the whole thing a rather unfilm like look. In fact it reminds me of over processed video.

Doug

It's hard to pick any reply to my color-(re-)correction, so I'll just go with your's

First of all when you look at the image on a calibrated monitor you'll see that the highlights are not really blown out (and they weren't in the movie itself either)... the detail there is about 98% intact after my changes, I've been careful with that. The same goes with the blacks. I agree that the concept isn't perfect yet, and for TV-output I'd have to take a bit of the contrast out again. Still I feel that my changes mimic the looks of the trilogy quite nicely. Of course the image got sharpened, but with quite a large unsharp-mask-radius, to get rid of that terrible glow. So technically there's no edge-enhancement used that can be found in those screenshots (but I still have to find the correct balance for the unsharp mask ) Furthermore the midtones were raised to a terrible amount, that and the glow filter were probably just used to make Harrison look younger (less wrinkles... which worked). But that dreamy glowy look isn't how and "Indiana Jones"-movie is supposed to look. The trilogy was shot with fairly harsh contrasts and desaturated colors, and I think trying to fix the terrible grading (as far as that's possible) would already make for a better movie.

A negative side-aspect of the grading was quite an "unreal" look to a lot of scenes, which - as already stated - appeared like being CG, although they weren't.

I'm curious to know, is that De-saturation?

Not only that. Although I've also desaturated the image (and shifted it a little more towards a cooler blue), the most important changes were getting rid of the glow-filter and bringing the mid-tones down a bit.

 

[Indy's brother]

Seriously, Laserschwert, and I can only speak for myself, I really like what you did there. How hard would it be to give the whole film that treatment? I'll be honest, I'm not any sort of technical type person, so I don't really know what you are doing with these images, or if it could be done to the whole movie. I, for one, would love to see Skull this way.

 

[WeAreGoingToDie]

I was very happy to see Earnie Reyes Jr. get a mention in the making of! It's Keno of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2: The Secret of the Ooze!

 

[blueoakleyz]

I have to say that I was pretty happy that my CITY got quite a spotlight in the extras
The airports and whatnot.

Crappy area in town though

 

[AtomicAge]

It's hard to pick any reply to my color-(re-)correction, so I'll just go with your's

First of all when you look at the image on a calibrated monitor you'll see that the highlights are not really blown out (and they weren't in the movie itself either)... the detail there is about 98% intact after my changes, I've been careful with that. The same goes with the blacks. I agree that the concept isn't perfect yet, and for TV-output I'd have to take a bit of the contrast out again. Still I feel that my changes mimic the looks of the trilogy quite nicely. Of course the image got sharpened, but with quite a large unsharp-mask-radius, to get rid of that terrible glow. So technically there's no edge-enhancement used that can be found in those screenshots (but I still have to find the correct balance for the unsharp mask ) Furthermore the midtones were raised to a terrible amount, that and the glow filter were probably just used to make Harrison look younger (less wrinkles... which worked). But that dreamy glowy look isn't how and "Indiana Jones"-movie is supposed to look. The trilogy was shot with fairly harsh contrasts and desaturated colors, and I think trying to fix the terrible grading (as far as that's possible) would already make for a better movie.

A negative side-aspect of the grading was quite an "unreal" look to a lot of scenes, which - as already stated - appeared like being CG, although they weren't.

Both of my monitors, 24 inch workstation monitor and a 42 inch preview monitor have been calibrated using a GretagMacbeth Spectrolino calibration tool. They are as accurate as monitors in their price range can be.

While the whites aren't completely blown out, I agree with that, the detail is even harder to make out on your "corrected" versions than on the original.

Sharpening by definition adds edge enhancement. That's how sharpening works, it adds contrast to the edges of objects to give the illusion of sharpness. Of course you can't add any real detail to an image if it isn't there in the first place.

Unfortunately you're never going to be able to actually get rid of the glow as it exists on the original camera negative. You can minimize it, but I think in doing so you compromise the rest of the image. Again I look at what you have done, and while it is an interesting experiment, it doesn't look very film like.

Doug

 

[Udvarnoky]

I just want to reiterate that I find it highly unlikely that Ford's age had anything to do with the filtering. It definitely strikes me as an aesthetic choice run amok.

 

[AtomicAge]

I just want to reiterate that I find it highly unlikely that Ford's age had anything to do with the filtering. It definitely strikes me as an aesthetic choice run amok.

Agreed.

Doug

 

[Major West]

It's not run amok at all, it's a just an old film style that was chosen for the film.

As AtomicAge said, we've seen it before. One only think's it is more pronounced because modern film stocks are so much better now than 20-30 years ago you're getting a lot more detail and clarity.

 

[Major West]

I just want to reiterate that I find it highly unlikely that Ford's age had anything to do with the filtering. It definitely strikes me as an aesthetic choice run amok.

We have no proof of this one way or the other. What we do know for a fact is that soft filtering and pro mist filters were often used in the 40s,50s,60s, and 70s for close up shots on film stars to hide blemishes and advancing age.

Now a film set in the 1950s might the be ideal place to use such an old fashioned style and get away with it.

 

[Udvarnoky]

Whether it's the film stock or not, I cannot think of a movie that looks very much like Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Perhaps there are films where it could be appropriate, but an Indiana Jones film is not one of them in my mind.

We have no proof of this one way or the other. What we do know for a fact is that soft filtering and pro mist filters were often used in the 40s,50s,60s, and 70s for close up shots on film stars to hide blemishes and advancing age.

Yes, but this isn't the 70s, and when you use filtering as strong as Indy4 does in a modern movie, it very much calls attention to itself, to the point where it should serve more of a purpose than hiding an actor's age, which I think in Kaminski's mind it did.

You're right, we've no proof of anything, but hasn't the production constantly talked about how being honest about Ford's age was a main goal of the movie? Isn't there that story where Ford rejected the first make-up test because it made him look too young. Your theory isn't congruous with much of what we've heard from the crew. The effect of the filtering changes the look of the entire film and gives it a very specific feel. If it was a technique truly done specifically for Ford's age, it's not only cowardly, but it didn't succeed. And I don't buy it anyway.

Now a film set in the 1950s might the be ideal place to use such an old fashioned style and get away with it.

Maybe a movie set in the 50s that didn't also happen to be an Indiana Jones film.

 

[IdahoJones]

Hello everybody. Ive got the two disk DVD but I cant find any commentary? Did I just miss it?

 

[Major West]

Just for curiosity I wanted to see what one of the previous films would look like in the similar Vein to KOTCS. Just knocked these up very quickly.

 

[WeAreGoingToDie]

Hello everybody. Ive got the two disk DVD but I cant find any commentary? Did I just miss it?

Spielberg doesn't do commentary on his films, but you'll find the production journal has MORE than enough inside info, going scene by scene down the production timeline.

 

[IdahoJones]

Spielberg doesn't do commentary on his films, but you'll find the production journal has MORE than enough inside info, going scene by scene down the production timeline.

Thanks, I havent bought a Spielberg DVD in a while. And yea the Production Timeline was great.

 

[The Professor]

It's funny to see so many scenes that were filmed "live on the set" which the haters claimed was CGI.

I think that's particularly true for the church at the end. As evidenced by the special features, it was a real church. However, the lighting made it appear like a set to me. It's undoubtedly the opposite effect from what they were going for.

 

[AtomicAge]

Hello everybody. Ive got the two disk DVD but I cant find any commentary? Did I just miss it?

Spielberg doesn't do commentaries.

Doug

 

[caats]

Just for curiosity I wanted to see what one of the previous films would look like in the similar Vein to KOTCS. Just knocked these up very quickly.

for me all this lighting did was give the film a very classic/nostalgic look. i dig it

 

[StoneTriple]

If it was a technique truly done specifically for Ford's age, it's not only cowardly...

I certainly don't get the feeling they were ever trying to hide his age, not even remotely. In fact, his age is a significant part of the story. It's addressed seriously as well as comically. His age is clearly visible all the time.

 

[oki9Sedo]

I certainly don't get the feeling they were ever trying to hide his age, not even remotely. In fact, his age is a significant part of the story. It's addressed seriously as well as comically. His age is clearly visible all the time.

I agree wholeheartedly. That's a technique Kaminski is very fond of and he just used it again here.