Indy and Odysseus

[Blofeld]

I'm a substitute teacher(doing as much classroom work as I can while getting my teaching degree)...anyway I was in a classroom yesterday looking at a new history book, and, to my surprise, in a section on classical Greece, they had a photo of the Raiders movie poster in a sidebar about Odysseus.

The caption said that Indy is like a modern day Odysseus because he relies mostly on his wits to get by.

Interesting......

 

[vaxer]

I read the book (The Odyssey) about ten years ago and as far as I can remember I have a hard time comparing Indy to Odysseus (more commonly known as Ulysses in my country). Of course they are both heroes but Indy has both of his feet down to earth and can actually be compare to a 'normal' (I hate that word) human. Ulysses's journey is not really archeological plus it's as fantacy (fantasyist?) as mythology can get.

 

[intergamer]

Vaxer, Indy <i>is</i> Odysseus. In fact, while studying the Oddysey in school, we watched a video that used Indiana Jones=Odysseus as a recurring metaphor. I'd take the time to explain all the parallels, but there's too many.

 

[vaxer]

The only thing I see in common is the concept of hero. For me you can compare Indy to Odysseus as much as any other adventure heroes.

Odysseus lives in a world in which the 'God part' is entirely defined and accepted. In Indy's world God is only hypothetical and that's what makes all the mistery. Indy's just a human confronting the unknown, Odysseus is himself a mythical charactor. The variables are so different that the equation Indy=Odysseus doesn't seem quiet balanced to me.

 

[Finn]

http://www.theraider.net/theraven/showthread.php?threadid=3108
Interesting topic, discussed before. Many references found here.

 

[Blofeld]

Indy is like Odysseus because he aims to survive,like shooting the Cairo swordsman- the ends justify the means.

Unlike Achilles, a hero with fierce pride and ego, Odysseus has humilty and just gets by, losing much(his men, his ships, his treasures) but keeping his wits.

Yes, there are important differences, Indy isn't a warrior or a king but it is an apt analogy

 

[Attila the Professor]

If somebody were to make the statement that Jones and Ulysses are very similar, it seems one of three things must be true:

I) The person or persons making the statement must be rather off.
II) The person or persons making the statement believe that falling under a rather large umbrella category of "hero" even if they include one or two parameters merits such a specific statement.
III) The person or persons making the statement have thoroughly looked at this and found certain significant parallels that none of us here have noticed.

 

[Pale Horse]

*drinking a budweiser at the bar*

true.

 

[Blofeld]

Basically, Indy doesn't always win....look at the teasers for all three films....same as Odysseus(Ulysseus is the Roman name). Unlike James Bond, Indy doesn't always come up on top. Indy has humilty beating himself up for getting Marion killed(apparently) , like Odysseus did with his men

It is an apt analogy, despite what Atilla thinks

 

[bob]

I suppose you can say that Indy is a mythic archatype in a way but i think to call Indy Odysseus is going a little too far.

Although saying that both men face the supernatural and embark on daring voyages to exotic places and defy Gods but the real question is what is Indys Ithicia?

 

[Attila the Professor]

Basically, Indy doesn't always win....look at the teasers for all three films....same as Odysseus(Ulysseus is the Roman name). Unlike James Bond, Indy doesn't always come up on top. Indy has humilty beating himself up for getting Marion killed(apparently) , like Odysseus did with his men

It is an apt analogy, despite what Atilla thinks

That's right, what I think isn't the point.

But how in perdition can the statement be made (I've seen the textbook, that isn't the issue) that "Indy = Ulysses" without demonstrating, not only very specific parallels between the two characters, but also instances where the parallels do not exist between them and other characters.

Do we have anybody well-versed in...um, what's his name again? Joseph Campbell, that's the guy, right? Hero with a 1000 Faces author? Is anyone here well-versed in his work and ideas? Because if so, your insight would be rather valuable here.

 

[Blofeld]

I realize that it's not an exact parralel....As an educator I've seen this trend.....getting the student to relate to something they are not remotely interested in (the classics) by comparing it to something the student is familiar with and maybe interested in(although most of my students think of Indy and the original Star Wars as "Old" movies-PERISH THE THOUGHT!").


Anyway, one of my students asked me yesterday why we should waste our time studying history. I replied by stating the old axiom that "those who do not remember the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them". That piqued his interests a little.

I used another technique to spur another student's attention. We were studying Alexander the Great(a great passion of mine) and I asked him how old he was. He said 16.
I then told him that when Alexander was sixteen he was already commanding an army in campaigns against tribes in the Balkans, he was interested then....

I can see there are a lot of opinions on this Indy/Odysseus issue and I started this thread to hear them all.....

Thanks and keep posting.

Blofeld

 

[theinfiniteweird]

I don't know much about Odssyeus, but the one trait I figured out the other day, which sums Indy up is this:
He always knows what to do right away and does it.

Is odysseus this way at all? I'm not talking just using resources, or always winning, or always doing necissarily the correct thing. he is very desicive and alays knows what to do right away. There are very, VERY few times when doesn't know what to do and/or hesitates about what to do right away.

Is Odysseus like this?

 

[thegreatimposter]

"Hero" can be used to describe a theme on journey. To be a hero, one must embark on the Hero's journey. Along these lines can one trail the parallel.

Odysseus left troy to journey home when the 'call to adventure' was the Gods blowing him and his crew off course. It then became Odysseus mission to return home, his hero's quest.

The thing is, I would personally compare Indy, not to Odysseus, but to Odysseus son, Telemachus.

Penelope was stuck home with a house full of suitors, who cammand the servants and drink Odysseus wine, and beat up Telemachus. After missing his father for the full 20 years of his life, Telemachus sets out to hire a ship and seek out Odysseus. He makes a deal with the suitors that should he find Odysseus, the suitors must leave his home. Otherwise Penelope must finally pick a suitor to wed.

And so Telemachus sets off on a quest to find his father.

ATONEMENT with the father is common to all stories and is the heart of conflict in most, even though it may not be referred to directly.

Luke/Vader
Indy/Henry
Telemachus/Odysseus

In this case, not only is Indy the father but also the son. He is the father seeking 'home' when he is Indy seeking treasure. And he is son seeking father when he is professor and teacher.

 

[Indygirl21]

You know, Blofeld, I had that same exact textbook last year for global history. I completely freaked out when I saw Indy's face in the middle of a chapter about ancient Greece! I still remember the page number, i think it was 108, cuz i used to go look at it when i was bored in class!