Darth Vile
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phatr32 said:
IMHO it's akin to the Grail Knight. Once you accept the implausibility, it becomes acceptable (as far as an Indiana Jones story is concerned).
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull - initial impressions and casual discussion
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IMHO it's akin to the Grail Knight. Once you accept the implausibility, it becomes acceptable (as far as an Indiana Jones story is concerned).
phatr32
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Its not that it?s implausible, its that I have a LOT of trouble associating indi with UFO's.
When I think of Indiana Jones, i think of archaeology, Egypt, bible story?s etc etc. ( I suppose its why ToD isn?t one of my favourites).
Either way I have to accept it, and hope they make a 5th movie.
Steve
When I think of Indiana Jones, i think of archaeology, Egypt, bible story?s etc etc. ( I suppose its why ToD isn?t one of my favourites).
Either way I have to accept it, and hope they make a 5th movie.
Steve
Darth Vile
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phatr32 said:
Yep - I know what you mean. There is plausibility and then there is plausibility within an Indiana Jones movie. Black magic, voodoo dolls and living Grail Knights were very 'out there' for me when those movies were first released. I feel the same way about the alien/UFO theme to some extent, but as I'm now older (and wiser I hope), I believe that type of minutia is less important than the other things going on in the movie.
Okay, this is easily my favorite B movie homage in KOTCS:
According to the "Complete Making Of" book, Orellana's golden mask was inspired by 1951's The Man From Planet X. Spielberg insisted on the likeness, as the original film had made a big impression on him as a kid.
Here's a couple shots of the original alien:
http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/0606010.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NAEXFFYEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
According to the "Complete Making Of" book, Orellana's golden mask was inspired by 1951's The Man From Planet X. Spielberg insisted on the likeness, as the original film had made a big impression on him as a kid.
Here's a couple shots of the original alien:
http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/0606010.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NAEXFFYEL._SL500_AA240_.jpg
Crusade>Raiders
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I guess because I read all these EU novels/comics/whatever I'm cool with Indy looking for crazy stuff. Hell, one time Indy goes into Dracula's castle! Another time he's looking for the last remaining dinosaurs! I can definitely see where you are coming from though.
Also, I like the allusions to other things instead of being spoon-fed info from the past. I don't know if any of you pay attention, but a video game series called Metal Gear Solid, half the game is literally watching cutscenes. Its pretentious, melodramatic, humorous, poetic, strange, and beautiful all at the same time, but it takes so ****ing long. I like PLAYING my video games, not watching them. Japanese game developers tend to go overboard with their storylines, but all you need are really subtle clues(in this case "like in Berlin.") and you can leave it up to the viewer to fill in the blanks.
Also, I like the allusions to other things instead of being spoon-fed info from the past. I don't know if any of you pay attention, but a video game series called Metal Gear Solid, half the game is literally watching cutscenes. Its pretentious, melodramatic, humorous, poetic, strange, and beautiful all at the same time, but it takes so ****ing long. I like PLAYING my video games, not watching them. Japanese game developers tend to go overboard with their storylines, but all you need are really subtle clues(in this case "like in Berlin.") and you can leave it up to the viewer to fill in the blanks.
A_True_Believer
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phatr32 said:
What made it acceptable for me is that they presented the aliens in a historical, archaeological context rather than a sci-fi one. The "ancient astronaut" theory is rather fascinating and in my opinion definitely falls in line with the usual things Indy encounters.
Now, if there was an all out invasion with attacking aliens like in the "Saucer Men from Mars" script that would be different. Such a thing is very un-Indy and would not have a place in the series. KOTCS, though, I think handled it correctly.
Darth Vile
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Crusade>Raiders said:
Quoted for truth.
Indiana Jones movies are simply a sequence of set pieces linked by small scenes of exposition. Each movie within the Indy franchise follows the same template as Raiders of the Lost Ark e.g. following Indy from one peril to another, each surpassing the last in scope and scale. Ultimately it?s the set pieces that define an Indy movie
agentsands77
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This is true, which is why I've always found RAIDERS and TEMPLE to come out ahead of the pack.Darth Vile said:
Darth Vile
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agentsands77 said:
The two set pieces for me that define the series are the truck chase (Raiders - obviously) and the tank chase (Last Crusade). I don't think they get any better than that... At the moment, the set pieces of KOTCS feel on a par with TOD (but that's just my opinion). I love the spike chamber from TOD (that's up there), but I'm still digging the bike/jungle chase from KOTCS too.
agentsands77
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See, I don't think much of any of the set-pieces from CRUSADE or KINGDOM. CRUSADE's set-pieces I find almost wholly forgettable... we do have the rather decent tank chase, but that's about it. KINGDOM comes out slightly ahead because of better concepts, but even then, the sequences aren't particularly inventive in their execution.
TEMPLE, however, is just one fantastic sequence after another. The opening 15 minutes are perhaps the best 15 minutes in the entire franchise. And it doesn't stop there. There's the spike chamber, which is pure awesomeness, and towards the end, we have the terrific rock belt fight/mine car escape/rope bride set-up. Really inventive, really fun.
TEMPLE, however, is just one fantastic sequence after another. The opening 15 minutes are perhaps the best 15 minutes in the entire franchise. And it doesn't stop there. There's the spike chamber, which is pure awesomeness, and towards the end, we have the terrific rock belt fight/mine car escape/rope bride set-up. Really inventive, really fun.
Darth Vile
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I think that's where it becomes somewhat subjective. I remember first seeing Crusade in the cinema (as a spotty teenager) and feeling (like some do here) underwhelmed by the entire experience. But even then, I was totally gobsmacked about the tank chase in that it just seemed bigger/better and more exciting than any set piece I'd seen up until then on the big screen.
Circa 20 years on, I actually think Last Crusade is a near perfect adventure movie (as close as you can get for a sequel), and even after all these years when the movie is playing in the background, I still get pulled in when that tank rolls into shot...
Circa 20 years on, I actually think Last Crusade is a near perfect adventure movie (as close as you can get for a sequel), and even after all these years when the movie is playing in the background, I still get pulled in when that tank rolls into shot...
jasperjones
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I love the tank chase. For me that's one of the best in the series.
One thing I would say about Temple though is that it's the only one that's ending keeps you really gripped all the way through and the action keeps going and going. It's the only one (Raiders included) where Indy pretty much drives all of the finale. The others all involve him reduced to the role of witness (not even that in Raiders - he has his eyes shut!) while the villain gets their comeuppance.
One thing I would say about Temple though is that it's the only one that's ending keeps you really gripped all the way through and the action keeps going and going. It's the only one (Raiders included) where Indy pretty much drives all of the finale. The others all involve him reduced to the role of witness (not even that in Raiders - he has his eyes shut!) while the villain gets their comeuppance.
MaxPhactor23
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Benraianajones
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jasperjones said:
Haha, yes I have often thought that. It is "odd" how Indy bascially just stands with his eyes closed at the finale of the film! Indy also doesn't see Spalko's death, he leaves the room before anything happens to her. He only really sees Donavan's demise (we don't see his reaction though, just Elsa yelling!). I guess we can asusme Indy "saw" Mola Ram fall in to the mouths of crocodiles.
I wish Fate Of Atlantis was made as a film, the finale with the God Machine would be such an interesting film ending.
Benraianajones said:
Well, he does see the entire city turned to ruins and washed away.
I finally read the KOTCS section in the "Complete Making Of" book, and was surprised by how often the film utilized practical effects. Obviously, there are plenty of f/x that were done via computer (ie. atomic bomb; re-animated alien; ufo; ants). But a lot of the stuff people just assume was cgi (myself included) was actually done for real:
-Harrison really swung on a whip in a giant warehouse. Not in front of a green screen, as a lot of people complained.
-Shia really hefted a 13 foot python that weighed 50 lbs. The snake was so unwieldy, they wasted several takes trying to get it to hit the right mark. (Stan Winston created two rubber snakes for the actual pulling scene.)
-The finale consisted of a large number of giant sets. The pyramid steps. The booby-trapped stairwell. (Karen Allen says it was the most difficult part for her, even though they all wore a safety harness.) The throne room with Stan Winston's crystal skeletons. Even the obelisk effect was achieved using a working model. (I was sure this was probably cgi.)
-When Indy uses the skull on the door, that was an actual working door that they constructed. The original plan was to use cgi, but Spielberg finally said, "Is there any way we can actually build this so that it works?" After the first time it was used, the entire crew broke into applause.
-The jungle was enhanced with cgi foilage, since they couldn't get permission to destroy a real jungle. This is also why the monkeys were cgi, since they weren't allowed to bring in any live animals.
-Doom Town was basically a mix of modelwork and cgi. (The model cars turned out so well, they nixed plans to add them in digitally.)
sandiegojones
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This cartoon mentions that the Russians trying to get the Roswell alien from the warehouse made no sense. I actually haven't seen many complaints or confusion about this around here.MaxPhactor23 said:
As far as I could tell, they wanted to get a body of a similar alien with the crystal skeleton to likely use it's skull to get into Akator. Or she just wanted to prove that the skull is in fact alien. Spalko explains in the tent scene that there were 2 alien crashes in the USSR, but they were not the same kind of aliens. Even if they didn't get to Akator she still wanted a skull for it's psychic power which is why she'd be willing to invade a US base.
They had kidnapped Ox to get the skull back and locate Akator, but could not decipher his gibberish so they kidnapped Indy to get the Roswell alien and likely were going take him to South America. Instead he escaped, so they got Marion and arranged for her to escape and send the letter so Indy would come to them. They didn't need Indy to get the skull for them, just to help find Akator, it's just a bonus that he got it. It does kind of make the Jungle chase pointless though since they didn't have the second skull.
It's extremely contrived for sure, but no more than Last Crusade.
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Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious that the Russians were simply trying to piece together clues. Their discoveries in Russia (presumably a reference to the Tunguska Event) led to their interest in seeing what the US had uncovered at Roswell.
And the Roswell alien (and its crystal skeleton) provided proof that the legends of Akator and the crystal skull may have been true.
This led them to Oxley.
And the Roswell alien (and its crystal skeleton) provided proof that the legends of Akator and the crystal skull may have been true.
This led them to Oxley.
Peacock's-Eye
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I thought the cartoon was obvious, unfunny, and poorly drawn.
But that's just my opinion, right?
But that's just my opinion, right?
Benraianajones
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James said:Well, he does see the entire city turned to ruins and washed away.
He does, but, he doesn't see what Irina's demise actually consists of.
As for the comic thing...I thought it was obvious Irina and co wanted the warehouse alien remains to simply peice clues together, and see if it gave credence to their speculation of Akator exisiting.
And I still get bored hearing "Indy went X files" at the end...since when has alien-themed things meant "X files", X files did not create the concept of aliens. The theme of aliens is allowed outside of "X files".