Last Crusade = Raiders of the lost Ark

J

JP Jones

New member
I feel like I'm the only one who really doesn't like LC so I'm here to explain.
I just watched it for the second time in my life and I noticed how hard it tries to mimick Raiders. 1st the villian is a fellow archeologist who decides to work with nazis. Donovan is boring though. 2nd Indy is trying to get a religous artifact before the nazis do. There was so many possibities for an indiana jones adventure and all they did was make a bad version of raiders.(n)
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
mr.kotcs said:
I feel like I'm the only one who really doesn't like LC so I'm here to explain.
I just watched it for the second time in my life and I noticed how hard it tries to mimick Raiders. 1st the villian is a fellow archeologist who decides to work with nazis. Donovan is boring though. 2nd Indy is trying to get a religous artifact before the nazis do. There was so many possibities for an indiana jones adventure and all they did was make a bad version of raiders.(n)
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Crystal Skull does a fairly good Raiders impression too!
 
The Drifter

The Drifter

New member
mr.kotcs said:
I feel like I'm the only one who really doesn't like LC so I'm here to explain.
I just watched it for the second time in my life and I noticed how hard it tries to mimick Raiders. 1st the villian is a fellow archeologist who decides to work with nazis. Donovan is boring though. 2nd Indy is trying to get a religous artifact before the nazis do. There was so many possibities for an indiana jones adventure and all they did was make a bad version of raiders.(n)
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Just had to point this out. Donovan was not an archeologist. He just collected rare pieces.
 
J

JP Jones

New member
Lonsome_Drifter said:
Just had to point this out. Donovan was not an archeologist. He just collected rare pieces.
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But do you agree that he is an unsucsessful carbon copy of belloq?
 
Crack that whip

Crack that whip

New member
I don't agree that he's any kind of a carbon copy of Belloq (unsuccessful or not), though I do agree he's the least compelling of the major villains (not because I think Julian Glover is a bad actor or anything, or the character poorly written; I just think most of the other villains, including all the other "main" ones, are so much stronger). But still, he works for me, particularly in conjunction with Elsa.

For a brief while Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was probably the one I liked least out of the original three (even though it was the one I saw the most times in theaters), back when there were just three, but I've found that as I've grown older I've grown to really appreciate it a lot more.

That said, no, you're not alone here in your assessment; I do know ResidentAlien, for one, really doesn't care much for it at all (though he likes the fourth one even less). Each of the four movies has its detractors here (even the ultra-classic Raiders of the Lost Ark was the subject of a thread or two here not too long ago, for people who like it the least out of the series). Different strokes, and all that...
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
mr.kotcs said:
Huh!? how so. She's a russian communist and she has nothing to do with archeology. Mostly mind-controll
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You forgot to mention they have different naughty bits.

My comment wasn't to elicit how she's NOT like Belloq.

Well, just for starters, and the most obvious, she bounces between trying to have him killed and recognizing him as a peer.

She's blinded by her ambition...literally in the end.

...that's enough for now.


Fine, one more...she uses mind control he uses his Frenchie charm, (and a bottle). Both find varying success.
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
mr.kotcs said:
I just watched it for the second time in my life
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This is almost as weird as the person who joined The Raven and hadn't even seen "Raiders"!:eek: Anyway, yes, "Crusade" mimics "Raiders". You're only realizing this now...20 years later?:confused:
 
C

Chewbacca Jones

New member
Stoo, realize that mr. kotcs has only seen the movie TWICE!

I agree, and have had this discussion with major fans of LC. I even risked the ire of my fiance to express my opinion that, had LC not been an Indy movie, it would have been panned for being a total Raiders rip-off. I think it is a Raiders rip-off. But in the annals of rip-off history, I feel it is the best rip-off ever.

In otherwords, I agree that LC tries very hard to be a thinly disguised clone of Raiders, but I still love it. KOTCS, on the other hand, tries and falls flat on it's face (in my humble... ok, not that humble... opinion).

I also concede that Donavan is a lesser villain, but I think he's more obligatory in terms of a role that had to be, while Elsa is the real Belloq stand-in. I think of her as "what if Belloq had been a woman - charming, sexy, bad but not evil, and somehow likable... and being a pretty woman makes her just that much more appealing to Indy.

Spalko... all I can say is; Wasted Opportunity. She could have been the ultimate Belloq/Toht/Mola Ram hybrid. Instead, she was kind of like Darth Vader in Night at the Museum 2. Funny in a comedy, but in an Indy film... (n) (Note, I do not blame Miss Kate).
 
Stoo

Stoo

Well-known member
Chewbacca Jones said:
Stoo, realize that mr. kotcs has only seen the movie TWICE!
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Hey, Chewie. As bizarre as that is, it shouldn't really matter in the end. Back in '89, ALL my friends & I thought the same thing after seeing it only ONCE! Re-hash! (albeit, a good one).:D

For this reason, I firmly believe that some people who saw the films in random order on TV/video have a different take on the series than those of us who experienced the original trilogy at the theatre in the order of release.
 
Cole

Cole

New member
In many ways, the Cup of Christ is a fairly routine McGuffin after the Ark. As is battling the Nazis again.

However, the journey with Indy and his father, and how they incorporate the McGuffin into the story, and how they incorporate the personal story into it.........these all make it unique. And to me, what makes it the best Indy movie.

Donovan and Elsa are unique as villains because we think they are "good" guys until halfway through the movie. Particularly Elsa was a fantastic villain. Nothing like any of the other villains since Indy had some personal feelings for her.
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Cole said:
After the Ark.......they're both two of the biggest religous/Christian artifacts. Fairly retread.
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Hmmm...what's your definition of routine?

You're calling the Ark a Christian artifact?

...a religious artifact to be sure, but retread?

You're really pretty vauge. Care to elaborate?
 
Rocket Surgeon

Rocket Surgeon

Guest
Cole said:
No, I don't. I alrady laid it out. You disagree with me, then fine.
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It's not that I don't agree with you as much as I'm curious where you're coming from...and if you have something worthwhile to say.

But I guess I know now.
 
C

Chewbacca Jones

New member
Cole's point seems rather strait forward to me. Both stem from the same theology, they are essentially the Big Dogs of Judeo-Christian artifacts, and even in 1989, the Holy Grail was kind of old-hat. It's kind of like playing word association; most people hear "black" and think "white". Most of the remainder think "gray."

As for the Ark being a Christian Artifact, it is. It also happens to be a Jewish artifact. In point of fact, all noteworthy Christian artifacts are also Jewish up until the birth of Christ. And for all I know, the Ark is an element of other religions and cultures.

So, now you have many words to rephrase a few.

By the way, Stoo;
I was too young to be conscious of LC's obvious rehash of Raiders. I saw them all in their first theater run, but I couldn't quantify the inexplicable comfort of LC. I just knew it made me happier than ToD! :D
 
Cole

Cole

New member
It seems Rocket Surgeon would rather be a dick to me then discuss the issue at hand.
 
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