Scene Breakdowns and Analysis.

[psion]

What do you think guys?

I know there are alot of discussion about this and that.

I kind want to do a scene analysis with everyone (who feels like it)
about why certain scenes are like the way they are.
Dont think of me as crazy (we are at a Indy Maniac fan site here)

I mean, there are other threads talking about what we dont like, what we like, and what to improve, etc.

This thread hopes to breakdown the scenes and figure why the scenes are there and what purpose they serve in the logic to the movie and the production.

I cant go thru all the scene at once, so I hope to do it with everyone from now on.

And We should do it IN SCENE ORDER like the movie.

If some people think I am wasting time, is alright, I am wasting my own time for the Indy fan in me. Dont worry and move on to another thread.
If interested, I think it would be pretty fun, and might solve some people's problems.

Before I move on. I have to say I am in the group that likes the movie.
I do see the flaws, but I do like it. and have no hate towards it.


I will start. (alot will be stating the obvious, so bear with me. But atleast we can keep a record of the list)


1. OPENING (PARAMOUNT LOGO):

Old paramount logo shows up.

Purpose: The Berg wanted to match the old movies.

Comments: Great idea. It would have been very bad using the new CG paramount logo.

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2. PARAMOUNT LOGO dissolves into a Praire dog hill

Like all 3 movies, it has to dissolve into something in the shape.
In this case, a rodent hill.

Purpose: Probably Lucas's idea, but it dont matter. I do think the BERG
probably think, the mountain trick have been played, instead opt for a more surprising trick for the fans. As the fans wait for the mountain, wait....
is a little rodent hill. haha. I think that is why the thing exist.

As for CG. logically, in movie world. Much easier to control CG animals then REAL ONES. ILM got a little cocky and always think their CG looks real, so logically, is CG and not real. Easier to control, and act on cue right before the car tires run it thru.

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CREDITS FONTS:
great stuff, matching the ones in Raiders and TLC.
the feel is definately more TLC.

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Opening sequence of the car.

Lucas's American Griffti. the end. that is why it is there.
With GL and SS love for Elvis, the music is there.
Cinematography, cloned enough Douglas here I belive.

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ENTERING AREA 51

Yes, many questions on why US goverment only have 4 soldiers watching 51.

while it is a plot hole. But yes, I can think of a explaination.
That in the 50s, seriously, NO ONE KNOWS AREA 51 (like it is popular today)
like the 30s in Raiders. NO ONE knows the existence of the site.
If no one knows it, dont need anyone to watch it other than 4 soliders at the check point.

BUT, of course, somewhere somehow, the KGB found it (maybe thru intelligence spy and stuff during the cold war) that is how the russians
KNOWs that AREA 51 contains the box of Roswell. Funny thing is that
They probably only think that is there and some national treasures, because
obviously, they didnt try to take any other stuff, other than the Alien.
They dont know the Ark is there, or whatever crazy stuff that is there.

Lastly, why the security is soooo bad in AREA 51. While, since it is super classified, like all super classified sites, there isnt too much contact.
Plus, it is in the 50s. There is no hidden security cameras or super mobile phones. once they took care of the 4 soliders, they will have enough time
before any goverment army or whoever to show up. And that is exactly what they planned.

 

[psion]

INDYS ENTRANCE:

handle well, with the shadow and music cue. It is really the way SS is showing to the audience, look he is back! hat and all.

Of course here is where the cinematography got a little too glowy.
Hey, Kaminski did his best. No one can complete copy a person.
Although it is distracting sometimes, I think it is ok with nice colors and all.

Spalko's psychic problem.
Well, I think SS tried to make that issue very vague. Like you can see when she tries to read Indy, Indy laughs it off. And you can tell, She really didnt do anything. Trying to tell us, that... psychic powers, is it real? or it is fake?
we dont know, and we cant prove anything. Just vague. Which is fine.
If she really started to read minds, then it would just be werid. So keep it vague, maybe she have it, maybe she dont. and Indy certainly havent seen it.

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WAREHOUSE DOOR OPENS:
Great Ark cue and great shot, because it is almost like a backward shot of end of Raiders.
Instead of pulling outward, it is puling inwards to reveal all the crates.

on the problem of WHY INDY HELPS THE Russians and not doing too many things about it.

While, it is weak on the screen writing.
But I think it is Indy-like.

1. He cant run yet. Too many Russians.
2. His bad experience with US goverment. He is not a traitor, but
he lost the Ark to the US governt, and even so bad experience at Roswell.

So in way he wants to see whats in the box himself. Just like the Ark, how he couldnt destroy it. He has the curiosty of wanting to see what the hell it is.

He is planning his escape, just slowly and calculated. So the whole gun powder thing is to buy him time, and check out what it is.
You can tell, he did try to save the Alien box, and not just give it to them.
He drove the truck with the box and thru Spalko out, away, only have it to crash it seconds later.

So, eventho he helps, like the other movies, he helps, to see what is going on, and still plans to do something.

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ROCKET SLIDE:
Alot of people think this movie is more family friendly. It is.
People were complaining about death.

Russian soldiers get burnt alive by the booster, it is pretty crazy.
They were fried in seconds. Not gory, but hey, it is deaths.

 

[psion]

MORE PRAIRE DOGS
during the rocket slide. Sad. But it is there. It was not that harmful. It was Lucas trying to make the kiddies happy like the lame Yee-Pee of Anakin Skywalker in TPM. Amusing for the kids man.

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DOOMTOWN:

I love it. It is the 50s as intended by GL and SS.
Yes the Fridge scene is from BTTF and the old script. It is absolutely silly.
But i think the scene is born, with all of them sitting down, and just think this is just crazy, lets do it for the hell of it.

I love it, because it is LAME as a LAME idea can be. I can hear them say, Oh lets just do it and make the thing go flying. And everyone said YES.

Lets give a reason for ILM to make that nice Mushroom cloud shot and another excercise on the furry CG (for the kiddies). Thats pretty much why the scene exist.

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DE-CONTAMINATION ROOM

Yeah, it does seem out of place. one reason could be that Guys Hendrix production design. Look at the bunker-ish army design and colors, It is from His designs from X-Men. Same color and style.
Very out of place, but that pretty much his style, cant blame him.
There was no referance at all from previous films.

I personally do belive this FBI scene was useless. Because they didnt go back at it in the end.

But I think the purpose of the scene IT WAS just to set the next scene up, to give a reason why Indy have to leave the College. That is all. Wasted, but it was there to serve that purpose and that only. Like ooohhhh, FBI hate Indy, FBI make Indy leave US. Just another reason to put Indy in a position where since he has no job, time for adventure!!!! thank you FBI!!!

 

[oki9Sedo]

This is an exercise in futility.

You can't break down why a scene "works". Film is art, not science.

 

[psion]

MARSHALL COLLEGE:

really cool, because it is a nostalgic scene to Raiders and TLC.
And if you really think about it, SKULLS have the most time and scene at Marshall which is great!

Homage to various things. Very Indy like scene to balance out the previous out of place scene. So, blending some new and some old. is very good.

Connery photo. It is fine. Yes, it is a production shot.
We can just make up a story about maybe a famous Archealogy magazine did a article or interview with Sr. and took that photo, which later was given to Indy. No complains there. Great touching scene.

Indy expression looking at his Father is priceless. It was like, wow dad, in TLC, we connected. But now you are gone. I am once alone. I love you dad, all in one look in one second. Nicely done.

Even when he leaves ready to go on the train, he takes a look at the college almost like, he is not coming back to the crazy US of the 50s.

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MUTT on BIKE:
Great Homage again. Great shot of him coming out of the train steam.
classic BERG shot.

 

[psion]

I am not breaking it down to prove anything in science.

Just breaking down the scenes, as why the filmmaker make their art.

Like, why he made that red stroke, it is because it is vibrant color or did he feel passionate and have to add red.

It is just fan analysation. Nothing harmful.

no science. Appreciating the art. and hopefully understand the logic behind the shots that were made. As a fan, I love to know.

 

[psion]

DINER CAFE:

Scene exist for the start of the Mutt and Indy relationship.
and some expositions.

The expositions feels like the old trilogy. Indy teaching us about the Skulls, city of gold, etc.

I do not think it is too wordy. It is the same as the old movies, when Indy is explaining what the ark is.

So, why people think it is too wordy I dont understand. Same, as Indy explaining Shiva background and things. Fake Archealogy for Dorks like us.
it is totally less wordy then National treasure and Da Vinci Code. Those were all talking.

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BIKE CHASE ACTION

Classic SS. Fast and clean shots. Long shots, no fast editing. Just like he peomised, you see everything frame within the shot.

You got to love the fake looking stunt men, who we can tell is NOT Shia or Ford. GREAT! just like the 80s. Stunt Men, and not CG doubles. I think SS fought for this. Lucas, would have tried the CG face trick (maybe there was some) from SITH (ie. Emperor's saber battle, crazy CG face replacement)

Classic Indy action, of him climbing into a car and come out from the outer side.

really strong MUTT's theme. Strange not alot of people can hear it. the melody is really classic williams.

Over all, very clean shot compare to the recent action films. The cleanest shot I can remember recently is Die Hard 4, where most of the car action are shot from a far, and can be seen clearly doing the action. and not messy close shots.

Most people love this chase scene. Not too many problems here.

 

[psion]

INDYS HOUSE:

I think the plot hole here, is that, althought they do want to show his house one more time.

Strange that both KGB and FBI or police who arrived at the college for the chase didnt show up at the house right after.

But this is the second exposition scene that has to happen.
Explainin the code that Ox gave. and more Relationship exchanges between Mutt and Indy.

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PLANE RIDE:

Classic indy, sleeping on the plane (TOD) and red line over map.

Funny no one complained about the CG planes here, well because they looked great. Better than the old Model over blue screen.

Why they brought the bike on the plane is a mystery. Maybe they want to
show that MUTT loved his bike so much, he would actually take it to PERU and thinking about riding it. And Indy probably just thought it was a great traviling tool they can ride around it.

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PERU:
Yeah, it is mexican music. Well, the SET is from Universal Studio's old Mexico set. Where they set up the market place scene.
Cheap and no location shoot. sounds 80s style filming for me.

Great link with Young Indiana Jones with some info, and shows that MUTT
studied Spanish, and probably can speak it. Show that, MUTT is probably smart as his dad and grand dad.

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The AYSLUM:
Classic decoding exposition set peice.

Mutt's tears was forced, but it was there to show a bit more about his relationship with OX. And tries to justified that this search is more importnat since Ox is like his seregate dad.

Partially gives us the detail that Ox is mad by the skulls.

And of course Indy reading into the symbols and decoding the map to the grave yard. Classic stuff, because like Indy, he alwasy gets excited when he discover these things but never too excited.

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The GRAVE YARD:

They skipped how they got there.

Yes the Cememtry Warrior were strange. They were doing Kung Fu, or maybe it could be Brazilian Martial arts.

There wasnt too much explaination. But we can tell, as the grave robber warning was about them. Native wants to scare any robbers off.
There was alot of gold.

indy dispatched them quick like always. A CAMEO by HIS PISTOL. didnt use it but is there. he almost used it.

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Inside the Antichambers:

Creepy crawlies #1. Scorpions. Yes, CG. But it is easier for the actors and easier to control.

We all wanted the original Trilogy style of renting animals and bugs from all over the world. They had to in the 80s. Since no CG. But they also had big problem on the set, and difficult in the shoot.
No way logically in movie business, they will try, no matter what people say
going back using real bugs and stuff.

CG is just a easy tool to use over these elements.
Scorpions was rendered good enough tho.

Good tribute to Raiders and Doom. finally some dead old corposes and stuff.
Very creepy. And using Mutt to show that creepiness, since Indy sees this as everyday stuff for him.

You can tell Indy was very much like TLC, he just strolls thru the crypt like is nothing. all those experiences from his life. Like, Oh , look here is the level to open the door, and here is the opening we go in. Simple stuff.

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Consitedor's burial chamber:

#1 small discovery for Indy. Oh here is where the 7 ended up.

Of course finding the Skull that Ox intended for indy to find.

Nice set up for that binding heads for the gods exposition. To show that
The skulls are god and they look like that.

it is a nice link to the talk at the diner.

Because here is where we figure out the BASE Story.

There are crytal skulls in the world. Like the ones we have in the real world.
Indy and OX both saw it. The mystery is the same like in our world.
But like Indy said, those were diete god carvings.

So it is pretty much, the natives or ancient whatever making a tribute to there god WHO has crystal skeletons, thr the legends, these people made their own human like crystal skulls. The diner talk, reveals that OX found the REAL ONE. as the one true one that all the other human carvings was BASED ON. THE GOD ONE.

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Capture by RUSSIANS:

Obviously, tracked by MAC. Captured.
Then comes the family reunion scenes.

Some expositional scene for Spalko and her obsession for the ultimate psychic power.

But the tents scenes ony existed to explain why the area 51 Alien was taken.

Simply that, EVERYONE knows the legend (bedtime) story of the power of the 13 Skulls. You know, tales that pass on, same goes for the Ark and Grail.
Stories. People know it as legends. Spalko knows it.

Since Russian also have their own goverment team on Aliens. they also have there own crash site. They studied it. since it is the cold war, when they heard rumors of the US crash in Roswell. they want to obtain it.

In little info that Spalko reveal, the autopsy showed to them that he skeletons are Crystals. Need more prove, that is why they went for the Roswell alien to check about its skeleton to see if it is Crystal. And she was right. Making their own connections, that is how they tracked down
OX, who is the expert in the study of the Crystal Skulls.

ONLY then, Spalko made the connection that the legend of the 13 skulls is probably REAL and wanted it.

Eventho it was a bit messy, as many people thought WHY was the ALien in AREA 51 was needed, since it has nothing to do with the actually Main Skull in the movie and actually nothing to do with the 13, like Spalko said, this is just the distant cousin maybe looking for the 13.

Great way to connect everything, history, legends, and stories all into one.


More discussion on why Indy keeps helping. well, from here, it is not really curiosity, other than, he does have alot of family and buddy to save here in the middle of the jungle. Also, he has to return the skull since he looked into it.

The only plothole, everyone notice, was the mystery HOW the 13th skull was STOLEN from the temple, since the temple is in LOCK DOWN.
Supposely 500 years ago. Still, how did they get their hands on, and why only One Skulls.

Well, we can all make up our own story. I think, since the Tribe still lives there, maybe 500 years ago, the city was in a better shape then it is in 50s.
Tribes lives there, and worship the Temple of the 13. Which is NOT locked.
Doors wide open. But when the Spanish discovered them, had a little battle, or maybe had tea together, dont know. They secretly when into the temple and took one out and ran away. Only to never make it out and got killed in PERU and things.

When the 13th went missing. The TEMPLE closed on itself and locked the room.

BUT of course there is still sooo much unknow to this story. Well, nothing was detailed about the ARK, Stones, and Grail knight anyways.

Like, when the 13 aliens died became skeletons. At that point, why the Space ship didnt return. Once it got stolen, they felt like leaving, and hope the last one comes back so they can go home. So that is a mystery on its own.

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QUICKSAND PIT:
Just a humoruos scene designed to make the reveal of the son more light heart and interesting. And not boring, as if they were in a tent.

But it does feel like Lucas. He did almost the same thing in Attack of the CLONES when Padme revealed her really not convincing LOVE to Anakin before Collisum battle. Why did she do it? Because she thought they were going to died and have no more chance.
That is the same with Marion, had to tell him, becasue there is NO time, since they might died. Very GL on this.

Snake gag. SS had to do it. I doubt he can fit the snake gag anywhere. and he thinks the fans wanted it. He fitted into here. Snake almost became a CAMEO like Indy's pistol. Is like, hey look! We showed it!! we love you fans!!

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[psion]

OX help to get the russian only serve as a reason for the Jungle Chase next scene. They have to be recaptured for that to happen.

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THE JUNGLE CHASE:

Great family moment, which supposely Kasdan have consulted on the dialog. It works. It is smooth. Memoriable.

the Knife sound effect, was too vague for anyone to know what it is for and MUTT lines on Oh XXXX.

Funny thing is that in the truck with them is Dovencho, he is driven mad by the family argument.

But he got his ass kicked by Indy and Son. Why did pick him, dont know. Could have been any crappy Russian soliders here.

the rest of the taking over the truck, was handle great.

Up until, the bazooka the jungle Cutter, which it is true that the Cutter is wasted. Could have been a gret set action peice, BUT, probably too much money to built on that sequence. And maybe TOO BIG for the series.
Same thing that it would have satisfy some audiences, and hate by others.

The CG in the jungle was NOT as bad as everyone thinks. It is the fault of certain green or blue screen work that made the whole sequence bad.

Since the begining of the chase, most of the Jungle was already CG enchanced. But you cant tell. Only when MUTT's fight with Spalko it became obvoius and made everyone's view on the jungle bad.

It was seamless throught out most of the scenes.

SS was right and kept the stunt real, as it is real filmed in Hawaii.
But yes, not enough jungle, so had to enchance it with CG forests.

There was minimal blue screen work. Only the 2 shots of close up on MUTT and Spalko. The blue screen work is as bad as the Mine cart in DOOM.
the composit was not even smooth there, when Short Round was caught in between the 2 mine cart.
Or Return of the Jedi speeder bike. Same thing.

But why the whole thing crashed down. Is that the FX companies today have NOT figure out HOW to make Fake, especially Jungle lighting real.

people wonder, how a company like WETA, realistic King Kong, and ILM, with there work on Dave Jones and others. Fails at this.

Those are mostly characters. Alot of night and Epic enviorments are also realistic. BUT one thing, that make a deadly fake combination is when you combine BLUE screen work with Artifical Lighting.

that is why The Mutt and Spalko close up shots ended up as fake as the Stampead sequence in King Kong.

they tried to add, artifical Shadows and Lighting to simulate Jungle lighting. Which is never natural. Never, because there is no random lighting in a studio, so they CG the lights onto the actors with flares and all that just doesnt work.

But that is it, it didnt not make the jungle more CG-like. the jungle without the bad composite, will probably look super real.

I think logically, it is excusable. There is no way to get those close up show without blue screen. And 90% is real shot on location in Hawaii.
Only that the 10% shot influence audience to think that the rest is probably ALL blue screen. It not true. We all know the chase was perfect classic SS style. With cars and cranes getting those nice long shots in frame.

The blame is only the notorious use of artifical lighting by ILM during those close up shots which made the CG enchancment of the jungle stand out.

Of course, after the cliff chase. Like in the article Pablo Helman said.
It was a cut and paste to blend the argentina plates to the normal road chase they filmed. So, I belive there was NO blue and green screen used.
It was just cut and paste and blend the enviorments. Which resulting is a bit of color mismatch for it to not look real. The two cars were outside not in a studio enviorment (other than the really close up shots of faces)
But the photoshop blending of 2 locations with different lighitng didnt work too well. But like others said, better than the old matte paintings.


MUTT on Tarzan swinging, yep full on blue screen work. Silly, CG monkeys.
Another HEY Look Kiddies, GL did this for you. We only did it, because we could at the expense of ILM. Because they can, because they have monkey models in the computers and wanted to use it. Thats it.

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[psion]

ANTS:

No way this is the scarabs in Mummy.

It is perfectly rendered. sad that people call it copy of the mummy when Mummy copy Indy and Indy copy Mummy again?

Again, real bugs can not be controlled in that enviorment and too much problems on sets. CG is the way to go. Easy to control and definatly better rendered then in the mummy movies.

Indy movies is just doing what it always did not copying, there is no copying. No matter how much Temple looks like National Treasure. indy started those movies, it has every right to do those things, and not bother saying. Oh, since National Treasures and Mummy did it, lets stop for indy.
No way. Indy is the original, if Indy wants to find a Mummy, he can. and it doesnt mean he is copying Mummy movies.

funny thing is that many people defended Steven Sommers. While love the Mummy movies. Sommers is a great IDEA MAN. Like his great concept on Van Helsing and Mummy. But he is NOT a visionary. Boy his shots are sloppy and he passes real crappy CG. He has good ideas, but cant realise them

SS, strongest point is that he is a visionary, like the greats of Cameron and Peter jackson. The image and quality they see in their head is uncomparable to the newaday directors like the hack who made night at the museum.

Vision. Sommers is not one of them, he has great ideas almost simular to Lucas. If you take those ideas to a Visionary director, it would have been insanely awesome. that is why Scarab looks crap to these Ants. SS will never accept the renderings they did in the mummy.

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[eroc]

you got a lot of multiple post, but i want to say something about the Paramount logo. That one was for the fans. If you don't get it, then you don't have a sense of humor. Everyone wondered what the "logo" would fade into in the new film. Spielberg answered that question with the best analogy for "making a mountain out of a mole hill" that I ever could have imagined. Absolute Genius!

 

[Adamwankenobi]

I know it sounds corny, but this scene breakdown has seriously made me appreciate the film more.

 

[Sam Falco]

The security comment about Area 51 keeps coming around...

The base was closed to everyone, meaning that nobody was supposed to be coming in or out, so there didnt NEED to be more than 5 guys watching the gate, because nobody was supposed to be there at all. They certainly didnt expect the commies to come in guns a'blazin'.

As for the ants, people ***** about them alot, but I think it was genius. It took advantage of the setting and gave us a REALISTIC thing to fear, because those ants really do exist there.

 

[Yure]

Well, they shot the guys at the entrance. I don't believe they took the bodies with them, they were probably hidden.
Before they wire oper the hangar, we can see ruskies dragging more corpses, not the same, I think, of the entrance.

 

[psion]

yes, I totally love the old logo scene.

The BERG was listening. hehe.

Well, GL kinda of did it with SW prequels. althoght the FOX logo was CG new, but it didnt use the CG sweep version of the FOX logo.

But, definately awesome on the old logo.

I love the trick into a mole hill. If it was a mountain, it would have been, been there, done that thing.

No one would have expected that. A Mole hill.hehe

 

[psion]

ok, time for me to finish this up.


MARION jumping the cliff
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I think it was a perfect scene. No matter how crazy it is.

It was there to show that Marion was still "ballsy"to do crazy stuff like that.
She was not afraid. More Ballsy then Indy! in this case.

better yet, the snap back of the tree branch and killing alot of Russian soldiers falling into there death. Classic indy!

Forgot to mention that in the jungle chase scene, Indy also did that bump of the car,which send 3-4 soldiers flying out of the car. It is awesome.

It was the message from SS and GL, that look, just like the Nazi we use to hate, we will dispatch there soldiers like nothing. continuing from the Russian soldiers who got fried crispy from the rocket slide.

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3 Falls:

One of the most debate scene. Was 3 too much? It was just classic post-Raider jokes. IT IS AWESOME.
Because it was a running joke, 3 falls, 3, 3, 3
then, you see it, like Indy, there is one..... and there is more.

Yes, it is as unbelivable as jumping out of the plane in a raft, or a jumping mine cart. All of them survive the first 2 falls, only to build on the that
you are probably expecting that they might survive on the 3rd one.
Instead, it was just funny, everyone just fell out of the car.

I was cracking up so much. the first 2 falls was just to build on the last one.
Like, oh, everyone is there, oh everyone is there, oh... everyone is fell.

Especially the gag where Marion was just laughing madly with the steering wheel on her hands and wouldnt let go.
I can just imagine, she holding the wheel as tight as possible in car during the fall, only to fall out of the car with the steering wheel in her hands.

I had no problem with the FX here. Yes, it is a partial studio pool with green screen. But it was seamless. the CG water with the pool water.
I dont think it can get any better. Very ILM like, reminded me of the renderings in Pirates with the fake CG water interactions.

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Akator temple:

Great designs. But there is a main problem that one can figure out.
Where the hell did those Ugah native hide and live the whole time.
And pop out of the walls right on time.

I thought about it. the best I can come up with is.
With the news recently about undiscover tribe in the Amazon.
Yes, there are tribes who lives in places no one have ever seen.
And those tribes HAVE already notice Indy and gang since the entrance from the water fall. (it doesnt make too much sense but bear with me)

So, the Ugah tribe who protects the city,does not live in the city. The city is in ruins. Possibly, the tribe village is on the outer rim of the ruin city.
Protecting it for the last 500 years.
They obviously is afraid of the Skull, because it also their legend. they dont know what it is other then it is god. The current tribe definatly wasnt the tribe that had seen the Aliens when they were alive.
Those are probably thousands of years ago.
But they kepe the 13 skeletons save until the Spanish took one.

So, there protectors, saw from a high point near their village(atleast where the tribe women and kids are at) that new intruders are coming in.
and the male soldiers got ready for ambush from the walls. Gorilla attack style.

Sad, they got killed by the Russians (sad for tribe women and kids back at the village)

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The Obelisk Key:

Great set peice of ancient temple transformation. it does reminded me of a crappy movie that is AVP part 1. as legend of Mayan Aztec temple have all these sliding doors and transforming stones whatever.

I think the scene was great. Even with the relationship of the Indy family.
Mutt stopping Indy from kissing his mother by giving him a corpse to hold.

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The TEMPLE itself:

The alien collection was great. The treasures of artifacts.
Like Indy said, Aliens were Archeologist like himself.
Knowledge to study. And that power is to know as much as you can.

It was a mystery how the Skulls opens the door to the chamber.
Because, it is true that, how the hell did they close it after one skull was taken. So, we just have to skip that, and say it closed, maybe it was a
automatic alarm system, once the Spanish took them, the door shutted.

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13 ALIEN chamber:

Beautiful chamber of the 13. You really feel like WOW, this is the 13 skulls.
The power is there, you can feel it.

Problem: It would be better if the skeletons were in a coffin style and not sitting in thrones for all these years.

Since they were dead. Did they just sit there until they died??? and the flesh dusted away? Or the tribe positioned them in sitting position after they passed way?? It was strange here.

Spalko's knowledge burst is straight from Raiders. POWER becomes your death.
No one can handle that power, like the Ark, unless you are god, you will not able to handle the power, it will overpower you and destroy you.

About the 13 skeleton merging into 1 Alien, was lame in my opinion.
But I guess SS did want to connect to his other aliens movies,like in Encounters. GL, probably wanted the 50s style typical alien.
What happens is ILM taking it over board, since ILM can never control them self making simple stuff simple. So the alien was detail enough to have green eyes. That was lame yes. It was unneccesay, but I guess everyone wanted to do it, and that was the results.

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Saucer:

the temple breaking down was awesome, as you heard from ILM, that it is a brand new program they wrote to break off stuff, more advanced then the destructon program they wrote from Transformers.
You can see, alot money went into here.

Epic shots, classic 50s saucers designs.

Even, keeping it vague enough to say There are not Mars aliens, but interdementional beings. Because once you say that, you make so vague, that no one can argue anything. What planet are they from, or are they humans for the future, all there theories.

Once it is said that they are from space within space, there is a msytery, that they are not in this dimension. So they CAN NOT be explained with any logic or theories. It is as Mysterious as you can get!

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You realize I didnt mention Mac or anything, because it is true that his character became useless in the end. nothing valuable.

But moments before his death, the wink and all, does answer a few questions.
That he is just a really greedy shmo.

He is not bad, he never would have shot Indy (showed from the TENT and staring into the SKULL scene) He does want alot of Money, it only shows that MAC is REALLY REALLY POOR. He doesnt get paid anywhere.

And that he probably dont like the US goverment anyways, he is NOT a AMERICAN citizen. (dont know why the CIA lie would have work)

So, he doesnt care. Russians, what side he is on. He did it for the treasures.
He know Indy knows that in the End.

So, his last wink, only shows that he was telling Indy, I deserved this. I was greedy, and now I am paying for it. He knew, he will never get out of his Poor life, and when he does bad stuff for it, he got repercutions.

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ENDING, and WEDDING:

I think the wedding is fine. So many people made up their minds that Indy is James Bond, players, and bachelor until he dies.

That is not true. Remember the last 20 years, his life was not good. It works hard for the US, fighting for his country. His dad and Brody died.
He is lonely. He use to adventure as a loners, but remember, he is OLD.
He has nothing. No family. Went thru enough crap in this life. He still love adventures alright, but you can tell the new Indy loneliness in his eyes.

So, when fate brought him back with Marion, his soulmate. He finds out he have a son. In one second, he gain a family. And saw that his Son, is not a wuss, but actually damn smart and can pick a fight.

It is really a carry over from TLC. TLC, reminded Indy that family love is important. reconnected with his dad.

So it perfectly logical he gets Married at 65! how long do you have to wait??
Marion is old too!

It is time for him to fight for his family and make up for all those time he lost his mom and disconnected with his dad.

This is a new grown-up Indy. 65, he can fight, kick butts, adventurous. but he doesnt have to be a Loner. He isnt going to pimp more chicks at 65s like Sean Connery in ENTRAPMENT.

The wedding is justified by that.

Why no Cameos? Because in a way, if we imagine it like in the old script.
I would like Sallah, but hey, he could be dead.
Willie? Why? it wouldnt make sense. Since DOOM was prequel to Raiders.
Willie is long gone before Raiders happened.

Short Round? he is back in China man! Do you expect him to show up, speaking perfect English, and says He guys, I am Professor Round, thanks to Indy, who brought me back from China to the US, where I studied Archeology....etc. Horrible

No cameo is fine. Hey, the worst could be, GL making a CG ghost of Connery, looking down from the heavens and smiling. that would be HORRIBLE!!!!!!

Great ending. The hat gag with MUTT is pure evil, of GL. Seriously playing a big joke on us the fans.

TLC was a great cap off for the trilogy, but we do want to know what happnes after the sunset, how Indy was doing. And since this hollywood, the ending is happily ever after. The JONES name continues on!

 

[LostArk]

Last time I heard, Indy was 58, not 65

 

[psion]

really? oh I didnt know that. Sorry about that info.

I really thought they were going with the REAL age of Ford.

I guess he was playing younger. But still 58, still need to pimp new ladies?

I just dont see it, no matter what. Indy is not a man-whore. He is just not. he loves ladies, but only when he can pimp them. He does not go out and search and pimp out or expect sexiness at any location he is adventuring in.

It was time for time to chill out. Plus, Marrying marion, actually give him a adventure free card. Marion wont stop Indy from any adventures. Problem only is that if she tag along or not.

 

[WeAreGoingToDie]

Wouldn't this thread be better if every 5-10 minutes of film was discussed for a few days before moving on? The thread starter has already finished the breakdown and analysis of the film in less than 2 pages.
Why not have it be more like theforce.net, in which they analyze a DVD chapter a week? DO the same here, only analysing every 10 minutes or go scene by scene?

 

[lancetoris]

DOOMTOWN:

I love it. It is the 50s as intended by GL and SS.
Yes the Fridge scene is from BTTF and the old script. It is absolutely silly.
But i think the scene is born, with all of them sitting down, and just think this is just crazy, lets do it for the hell of it.

I love it, because it is LAME as a LAME idea can be. I can hear them say, Oh lets just do it and make the thing go flying. And everyone said YES.

Lets give a reason for ILM to make that nice Mushroom cloud shot and another excercise on the furry CG (for the kiddies). Thats pretty much why the scene exist.

In my mind, this was the first scene that should have been cut. I actually enjoyed it and don't think Lucas or Spielberg took it that seriously....I think it was supposed to be a tongue and cheek illustration of how "bad ass" Indy was. But if that was the point, I'm not sure it was that effective. Ultimately, the scene is irrelevant to the story.

I think it may have stronger to make it dream sequence (which is what I thought it was going to be in watching it). Scene plays out, Indy wakes up in a cold sweat. What this would do is a few things:

1. Keep the viewer IN the film. Most people I talked to said this scene really took them out of the movie.
2. Showcase the concerns of the times (atomic age + nuclear war).
3. Illustrate Indy reflecting on how fragile life is and that time isn't slowing down for him, which leads to...
4. Showing us why Indy would finally yearn for a wife and family.