Things that separate Dial of Destiny from the rest...

[Dr.Jonesy]

You know, I’m beginning to think you don’t like this movie.

Dial doesn't have any more 'holes' in its script than any other Indy film.

Raiders is a near-perfect film yet it has 'holes' like Indy somehow knowing to shut his eyes at the end ceremony, how Indy survived the submarine ride (we know from BTS but in the film it's left wide open), how Marion/Indy returned to civilization along with the Ark, or 'Indy's a commie' subplot gets resolved in Kingdom, or how fire cures the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma in Temple, etc.

These films aren't airtight - and who cares? They're fun!

First film where the main artifact appears in the opening sequence.

There’s also no secondary artifact (unless you count the fake Lance).

First time his students were disinterested.

First time the events of Temple of Doom were referenced.

Was there a secondary artifact in Kingdom?

I'd say that his students were disinterested in the material in Raiders - they were just interested in him.

Kingdom does feature a crystal skull in the opening...just not the Crystal Skull.

 

[Forbidden Eye]

First time his students were disinterested.

One detail in Crystal Skull I really like is when Dean Stanforth enters the room all the students turn to him before turning back to Dr. Jones’ lecture. Something that would’ve never happened in the 1930s with Marcus.

It was a nice little acknowledgement to Indy’s age without beating you over the head with it like Dial did.

 

[Finn]

Was there a secondary artifact in Kingdom?

Kingdom does feature a crystal skull in the opening...just not the Crystal Skull.

Methinks you answered your own question here. The Area 51 alien corpse is the "secondary artifact" - even if technically not a man-made relic, but it is the prize the parties involved are after during the prologue. And as is the tradition, it's in the villain's possession as the prologue ends.

 

[Dr.Jonesy]

Methinks you answered your own question here. The Area 51 alien corpse is the "secondary artifact" - even if technically not a man-made relic, but it is the prize the parties involved are after during the prologue. And as is the tradition, it's in the villain's possession as the prologue ends.

Guess that's true. I interpreted it as something that is much separated from the main McGuffin.

The Cross of Coronado is not another version of the Grail, the Fertility Idol isn't another Ark, etc.

Kingdom makes the cut on a 2nd artifact on a technicality, I suppose.

 

[michael]

You know, I’m beginning to think you don’t like this movie.

nah i still like it. i just like when stuff makes a bit more sense.

i think it deserves like a 65% on RT. but think of that as a test score, teach.

 

[Finn]

Guess that's true. I interpreted it as something that is much separated from the main McGuffin.

The Cross of Coronado is not another version of the Grail, the Fertility Idol isn't another Ark, etc.

Kingdom makes the cut on a 2nd artifact on a technicality, I suppose.

Narratively, it serves the exact same purpose. Besides, all of the secondary artifacts have their own unique aspects they don't share with the others.

Using the Golden Idol as the baseline...

In ToD, the secondary artifact is essentially not narratively developed at all. All we know about the diamond is that Indy wants it, bad. But we never learn why, what makes this sizable but relatively ordinary-seeming diamond so special to him - or at least we don't learn it within the confines of the movie itself, as it's later canon welding which explains that it was the Peacock's Eye.

In LC, he actually manages to recover the secondary artifact later.

In KotCS, the secondary artifact has a connection to the main MacGuffin.

In DoD, the secondary artifact turns out to be a fake.

 

[NickTurner]

Length.

OK to not be ambiguous (some have dirty minds!) - length of the movie itself.

 

[michael]

Length.

OK to not be ambiguous (some have dirty minds!) - length of the movie itself.

i wonder if the prologue is to blame. it was obvious they wanted to send a love letter to the originals with the action of a younger Indy.

while it's a fun talking point to trim parts between Morocco and Ancient Greece, not sure how much you could trim without having holes.

 

[Lightning43]

i wonder if the prologue is to blame. it was obvious they wanted to send a love letter to the originals with the action of a younger Indy.

while it's a fun talking point to trim parts between Morocco and Ancient Greece, not sure how much you could trim without having holes.

I like to think the prologue was the writer's make up for lost time of the 90s Indy movie we never gotten.

I guess we also got an additional flashback that could be considered "different" unlike the other installments.

 

[My_Pet_Snake-Reggie]

It's the only movie, in which Indy doesn't lose any of his gear it seems.

It's unfortunately also the one without either Ben Burtt himself behind sound design or his library of sounds. Besides the punch one being used i think twice throughout the entire movie, the Winchester gun shots and SW references are still missing. Not sure about whip cracks, though those seem to differ a bit from originals as well. Btw, anybody else thought the cracks in december teaser sounded way better than in the actual movie? I specifically mean the 'get back' gag?

 

[michael]

Btw, anybody else thought the cracks in december teaser sounded way better than in the actual movie? I specifically mean the 'get back' gag?

Dial's 'Part Time take'

 

[My_Pet_Snake-Reggie]

Dial's 'Part Time take'

Omg couldn't have said it better myself

 

[Spiked]

Dial doesn't have any more 'holes' in its script than any other Indy film.

Raiders is a near-perfect film yet it has 'holes' like Indy somehow knowing to shut his eyes at the end ceremony, how Indy survived the submarine ride (we know from BTS but in the film it's left wide open), how Marion/Indy returned to civilization along with the Ark, or 'Indy's a commie' subplot gets resolved in Kingdom, or how fire cures the Black Sleep of the Kali Ma in Temple, etc.

As a kid I knew Indy knew to shut his eyes because it was shown and explained that Indy had knowledge in these areas. It's why the government men sought him out and why he had the reputation that he did.

Fire didn't so much "cure" the black sleep it just shocked one out of one's stupor, that's how I've always viewed it. I think that's actually an old trope.

As for the sub and escaping from the island I just figured Indy worked it out and that was edited to move things along.

And re: the commie sub plot he talked to his attorney and got it straightened out.

 

[Face_Melt]

One detail in Crystal Skull I really like is when Dean Stanforth enters the room all the students turn to him before turning back to Dr. Jones’ lecture. Something that would’ve never happened in the 1930s with Marcus.

It was a nice little acknowledgement to Indy’s age without beating you over the head with it like Dial did.

Never noticed this. That’s neat.

 

[Lightning43]

Does anyone agree that Dial also lacked a "temple" unlike the rest? It makes sense that Archimedes' tomb isn't littered in traps, but the movie lacks the temple charm. After watching the deleted scene in Timeless Heroes and the missing boulder from the final trailer adds even more speculation.

 

[FordFan]

Does anyone agree that Dial also lacked a "temple" unlike the rest? It makes sense that Archimedes' tomb isn't littered in traps, but the movie lacks the temple charm. After watching the deleted scene in Timeless Heroes and the missing boulder from the final trailer adds even more speculation.

Doesn't it have the gas and the "get in the pool!" trap?

 

[Dr.Jonesy]

Does anyone agree that Dial also lacked a "temple" unlike the rest? It makes sense that Archimedes' tomb isn't littered in traps, but the movie lacks the temple charm. After watching the deleted scene in Timeless Heroes and the missing boulder from the final trailer adds even more speculation.

I really feel the frequency people say the 'temples with booby traps' trope was used in Indy was always exaggerated anyway.

It was always like one thing per film.

 

[Spiked]

Using the Golden Idol as the baseline...

In ToD, the secondary artifact is essentially not narratively developed at all. All we know about the diamond is that Indy wants it, bad. But we never learn why, what makes this sizable but relatively ordinary-seeming diamond so special to him - or at least we don't learn it within the confines of the movie itself, as it's later canon welding which explains that it was the Peacock's Eye.

In LC, he actually manages to recover the secondary artifact later.

I never felt the diamond needed any explanation. Either Indy was hired to recover it, or maybe he wants it to fund something else, either way it doesn't matter -- it's a true Hitchcock McGuffin.

And in LC adding in that recovery of the cross just seemed to be an attempt to try and retcon that Indy was always about things belonging in museums all along. And the set is so obviously a soundstage water tank it takes me out of the movie. There happens to be explosives lashed to the deck, the ship sinks in seconds and a convenient life preserver floats past.

 

[antonb]

not looking at the wrath of the ark is mentioned during the talk with the government officials I believe,

 

[Finn]

I never felt the diamond needed any explanation. Either Indy was hired to recover it, or maybe he wants it to fund something else, either way it doesn't matter -- it's a true Hitchcock McGuffin.

You seem to be mistaking observation for a complaint.