What about the President of the USA

[Rick5150]

Thank you for leaving Joe and Curly Joe out of it. Our counties motto would have to be changed to "Ow. Not so hard..."

 

[Deadlock]

Deadlock, you're right that our money says "in God we trust" on it.

So, Monkey, would you say that I'm "right on the money"???

And when the Muslim extremist murders chop off peoples heads, they shout "God is great!"

Sad isn't it? I'm pretty sure God isn't too tickled about that either. But it's not God who is the problem, it is some (and I hope only a few) of His followers that are the problem.

You can have your "God", but keep him/her/it out of my bedroom, out of my house, out of my life, and out of the laws that govern me. Keep your "God" out of the scientific laboratories that conduct research, out of the schools that teach my children, out of womens' reproductive rights.

These aren't arguments. These are orders or imperative statements. I can't debate these points, because you aren't making any.

Sure, Western Civilization has its origins in the Judaeo Christian Tradition, as it is called. But the Greeks and Romans, Vikings and Celts sure had a lot to do with it too.

Yep. But nobody is attacking these other cultural influences. You can still name your public high school team the "Vikings", or the "Trojans", or the "Fighting Irish."

In "God" we trust????? Which one??? Jupiter? Odin? Frey? Zeuss? Aphrodite?.

Ah, you see? It is precisely that ambiguity that embodies what the constitution was talking about. The Government can't define an official state religion. So despite the fact that we both can probably guess that our founding fathers were implying the Judeo Christian God of the Old and New Testaments... It doesn't SAY that, now does it? It is in this ambiguity that gives us enough room for us all to have freedom of religion.

Monkey, did you check out that link on the separation of church and state? It really is quite good.

You know that I like spirited debate.

You know what's even better? A civil and intelligent one. Keep up the good work, Monkey man.

 

[monkey]

Hey Deadlock, you just called me pointless, unintelligent, and uncivil. that's kind of insulting and not really nice.

Anyway, I fail to see how you don't see my point.

The point is pretty clear. Christians want to impose HIS will on me. Well, I don't believe in HIM. OK????

I don't care what the bible says. I don't want any of your Christian rules imposed on me. I am a free American and will not be ruled by religious fanatics no matter how tame.

Do you still not see my point?

 

[gladhatter]

I am not rightly sure what civility consist of but I am purty shure that monkey is amking some intelligent remarks here. The whole dang world has an idea of what God is . I have heard God is evvery thing from nature to Mother nature to the Woman that created them both. If God is the feller I read about in the old Testament I can tell you there was not much civility in him. I am not smart enough to know what is right or wrong in religions and such but I reckon a bit of moderation is a good thing just about any where except on a forum and maybe even better there.

I never learned much when I attempted a college curriculum at one point but I learned quite a bit from one english prof. Never liked him much at first and I was quite aged compared to most the students and he was simply abusing them and I stood up to him and told him I was a full grown man and I was not going to se it go on and he told me he never cared if I was a lepracon he was going to run his class as he pleased. Well after the dust settled and I finlly got him to realize he was neither god nor his brother and he had to answer to the ones that hired him we became great friends.

He always made us write papers that we took on one side or the oter of and some time both but then at the end he made us always write a paper with a balanced conclusion. He called it pragmatism. Its not a bad thing and I tried to carrysome of it with me where ever I wonder now. Its almost as good as American Express!!!

 

[monkey]

Gladhatter, you are indeed a man of great wisdom when you (allow me to paraphrase) say that maybe 'God' is 'nature' or
'mother nature'.

What you describe is Paganism.

 

[gladhatter]

Well Monkey it sure seems clear you are well studied and have a good reason for your beliefs. I hat e to see folks pressing belifs on others also but then again if youare a biblical christian you are pretty well forced to do it as it is part of the teaching. I am having hard time finding any middle ground here . I think I will keep searching for it. You fellers make some good points now don't yall let yor words stop you from saying waht you really want to . That is to say if you can agree to disagree the talking may teach us all some more. No guns sharp sticks or harsh words allowed here so let us abide by the rules and talk this out further.

 

[Deadlock]

Hey Deadlock, you just called me pointless, unintelligent, and uncivil. that's kind of insulting and not really nice.

I didn't call you any such thing. I was being serious when I said it was a civil and intelligent debate; no sarcasm intended or implied. Oh, the limitations of the typed word! The final smilie was meant as a friendly smile and not a sarcastic smirk.

And when I said you weren't making a point, I should have said that you're not making any points that I can argue against. Do you really expect me to say "No, forfeit your free will with blind following of a religious belief"??? That was pretty much the only position that could be taken against your statements... and not one that I'm going to take.

The point is pretty clear. Christians want to impose HIS will on me. Well, I don't believe in HIM. OK????

I don't care what the bible says. I don't want any of your Christian rules imposed on me. I am a free American and will not be ruled by religious fanatics no matter how tame.

Monkey, I haven't identified my particular religious affiliations. Nor will I at this juncture. However, if you place me among these Christian "religious fanatics", you would be mistaken. You seem to be arguing against points that I'm not making. I'm not imposing Christian rules on anybody.

I'm simply trying to get back to the original intent of the founding fathers rather than some modern misinterpretation. Especially in regards to goverment what is needed by religious persons and irreligious persons is RATIONALITY. Both sides seem so eager to jump down each others throats, reinterpret history, etc. Neither side is innocent; nor will we get anywhere without being reasonable.

Please, let's get back to discussing points I DID make, rather than insults or points I DIDN'T make.

 

[monkey]

Deadlock,
Just like in a game of pickup basketball, I raise my hand here: "My foul!"

OK, now I understand what you meant by your comment, and the smiley face after it.

I was completely wrong there. Apologies my friend.

Yes, damn the limitations of the type-written word!! It has foiled me on many occasions.

OK, I'm just a little bit sensitive about the whole Christian thing.

I hate hearing terms like "Christian Values". Good Grief!! Most of those 'values' are shared by people of all faiths and non-faiths around the world.

What about Pagan Values?..........like putting value on mother Earth.

I just don't like the Christian "God". I don't believe in it,or Him as it is often referred to.

I am often told that Christians and Moslems both worship the same "God". My reply is always the same: "Yeah, exactly!"

Too many people have been murdered, tortured, mutilated, enslaved, and victimized by people acting on behalf of "God".

I absolutely and certainly don't want the laws governing my beloved country to be influenced by such evil.

 

[Johan]

"A fool says in his heart, "there Is no God." "

 

[monkey]

A 'fool' does not seek knowledge, but only accepts blindly that which is dictated to him.

The Hitler Youth worshipped Hitler.

Jim Jones gave out Kool Aid, and they all drank it.

A bunch of guys cut their own privates off, then took poison while waiting for an alien space ship to come and pick them up.

sheep go to the slaughter, but the wolf must be hunted.

 

[Johan]

"Faith is in the unseen"

"Zeal is fit for the wise, but found mostly in fools"

 

[monkey]

I have faith in my mother earth, and my father sky. My brothers and sisters the wind, the rain, the sun, and the stars.

I have 'Faith' in myself, and in the power of good over evil. I will always strive to be good and to defeat evil.

By the way, these 'quotes' come from within myself, and are not read from any 'book'.

No one, and no organized religion dictates my spirituality.

 

[monkey]

By the way IJ, you call me a 'fool' one more time and I think we're gonna have to throw down.

I haven't called you a 'fool'. But it seems as if the Christian religion likes to deem anyone who is not a 'sheep' to be a 'fool'.

 

[Deadlock]

I was completely wrong there. Apologies my friend.

Yes, damn the limitations of the type-written word!! It has foiled me on many occasions.

Fuggedaboudit. I will try to more mindful of possible sarcastic misinterpretations of my posts. No hard feelings.

Let's bring this back to separation of church and state, and discuss the origin and proper labeling of values another time and in another thread...

But I just have one last thing to say:

Too many people have been murdered, tortured, mutilated, enslaved, and victimized by people acting on behalf of "God".

I totally agree 100%. But, God shouldn't be held responsible for the misguided and twisted interpretation that His followers act upon. That's THEIR own damn fault.

 

[Johan]

I have faith in my mother earth, and my father sky. My brothers and sisters the wind, the rain, the sun, and the stars.

I have 'Faith' in myself, and in the power of good over evil. I will always strive to be good and to defeat evil.

By the way, these 'quotes' come from within myself, and are not read from any 'book'.

No one, and no organized religion dictates my spirituality.

So you DO believe in a god..its called "Pantheism"(god is nature)

 

[monkey]

I think that's letting "God" off too easy Deadlock.

If "God's" teachings inspire murder, then "God" is an accessory to murder.

TOO MANY murders have been committed in "God's" name to be a coincidence.

I say "GUILTY!"

If there were such a thing as "God".

 

[Johan]

"I trust everyone...I just don't trust the devel in them"

Italian Job

This world is way too complex for it to be natural.

 

[Deadlock]

*TWEET*

I'm blowing the whistle guys!

I know I'm not a mod. But I think we all need to take a time out, cool off, get some sleep (for those in appropiate time zones ), and come back to this another day.

And when we come back, we need to drop this putting God on trial thing... Maybe in another thread, but I really don't think so. It'll be too divisive and too upsetting for many.

For the sake of sanity and civility, let's take a breather.

 

[Johan]

Hey, I'm perfectly relaxed and fine. I'm just making random quotes I learned in High School. Kinda fun to put my useless knowledge to use....GOD BLESS, that's right... GOD BLESS the Bathroom Reader

Besides it's half time on the football game on TV

 

[monkey]

IJ, no I don't believe in a "God".

One can be Spiritual without believing in a "God".

"God" just comes with too much baggage.

I walk along a California beach at sunset, watching that beautiful (and very dependable) orange orb descend and disappear into that wonderous and immense ocean who's waves lap at my feet with their symphony of foamy whispers that tickle my feet and remind me of my humble place in this great universe.

I don't need your "God" with his strict (nonsensical) rules about female reproduction, stem cell research.................PLAYING GOD!!!!

who's playing God???? what do you mean Playing God???

God, up there living on a cloud, with a big beard, telling everyone what to do, and yet if he is all powerful then why does he allow such suffering on earth? why can man alleviate that suffering but you "God" can not?

Oh yeah,,,, that's right, it's HIS PLAN. Yeah right. Whatever