herr gruber
Guest
The Man said:
Yep. Knight Of The Realm. The queen needs to remove Blofeld's knighthood, too.
Irina Spalko: A Threatening Villain?
- Thread starter bennihana123
- Start date
Yep. Knight Of The Realm. The queen needs to remove Blofeld's knighthood, too.
CrystalSkull13
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None of the villains have been scary.(Except for Mola Ram.)
SterankoII
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Yeah Mola Ram was the scariest. Especially in the human sacrifice scene. "KALI MA!!!"
Spalko combines the qualities of the three villains from Raiders. She has the over-the-top, blatently comic book weirdness of Toht, the militarism and authority of Dietrich, and the obsession over the object and the lust for power it possesses.
Also, just like Belloq was the opposite of the younger Indy of Raiders, Spalko is the opposite of old Indy in KOTCS. You really see this in the opening scene. Indy has rugged, rough wrinkled, leathery skin, and grey hair rumpled. He's like a mangy old dog(Which is what I love about Indy in this movie). First, Spalko is a woman. Can't get more opposite than that! And also young. She sleek, smooth, white skin, jet black hair, clear blue eyes and is catlike.
Spalko combines the qualities of the three villains from Raiders. She has the over-the-top, blatently comic book weirdness of Toht, the militarism and authority of Dietrich, and the obsession over the object and the lust for power it possesses.
Also, just like Belloq was the opposite of the younger Indy of Raiders, Spalko is the opposite of old Indy in KOTCS. You really see this in the opening scene. Indy has rugged, rough wrinkled, leathery skin, and grey hair rumpled. He's like a mangy old dog(Which is what I love about Indy in this movie). First, Spalko is a woman. Can't get more opposite than that! And also young. She sleek, smooth, white skin, jet black hair, clear blue eyes and is catlike.
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Agent Spalko
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bennihana123 said:
Irrelevant. The point is that Belloq, like Treveleyan, is a diametrical opposite of the hero and an example of how the Indy villains are similar to the villains of Bond.
Darth Vile
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Agent Spalko said:
Yep - I think the villains of the Indy movies owe a lot to the more iconic villains of Bond than any other I can think of. That said, I think most movies portrayal of villainy stems from those early Connery Bond movies e.g. Dr. No, Klebb, Goldfinger, Odd Job, Blofeld etc. They are the templates.
Agent Spalko
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It's really not surprising considering Bond was the inspiration for Indy and fathered by 007 himself.
SterankoII
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Considering Belloq told Indy himself "I am a shadowy reflection of you!" do we need to discuss it further?
Anyway Darth Vile listed Klebb, and that was an archetype that wasn't used before KOTCS. The cold, sexless evil b**ch, as opposed to the seductress that Elsa was. And man, Agent Spalko was a b**ch!
Anyway Darth Vile listed Klebb, and that was an archetype that wasn't used before KOTCS. The cold, sexless evil b**ch, as opposed to the seductress that Elsa was. And man, Agent Spalko was a b**ch!
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Agent Spalko
Guest
She wasn't b!tchy enough.
Crack that whip
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The Man said:
Well, unless you count Wu Han...
Crack that whip
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A fine question.
What defines an Indy sidekick? Perhaps that should be its own thread...
What defines an Indy sidekick? Perhaps that should be its own thread...
Agent Spalko
Guest
Yes, Wu Han is a sidekick. He was at Indy's side when he kicked the bucket.
SterankoII
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She did have the Indians at Akator shot. And also the personnel at Hangar 51 being killed was part of her plan.
BTW Toht never really killed anybody and either.
Darth Vile
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Agent Spalko said:
Yep - That goes without saying...
SterankoII said:
Both of those things happened off-screen, and she didn't do either of them personally. Actually, both of those things struck me as just a lame way for the movie to remind us, "These are BAD guys," rather than doing so by actually developing the evilness of the characters. And when I say "develop" I don't mean it in some overly deep, or even three dimensional way. Mola Ram was a one dimensional evil guy, but he also took genuine pleasure in watching the water rush to (presumably) drown the heroes, and watching the random thuggee get eaten alive by crocodiles. Those moments told us that he was the guy to scowl at and root against like any fun comic book villain. It was totally manipulative and the complete opposite of subtle, but that's exactly how it should be in a movie such as this. The Soviets were just...some guys in uniforms who didn't want Indy to beat them to Akator. The movie just says, "these are the villains" and expects us to handle the hating them from there.
No, Toht didn't kill anybody, but you definitely get the feeling he would be willing to. He was a wonderfully sadistic character, and you could bet Marion would have been well introduced to that poker if Indy hadn't have shown up in time. And that gleeful laugh when Indy and Marion are buried alive in the well of souls? Where were those moments from Spalko, or any of the other Commies?
I'm not saying the answer would necessarily have been for Spalko to kill people, but it wouldn't have hurt, especially since there were numerous scenes where it was called for for her to prove herself. It's all about establishing menace and making the villains, well, villainous. I mean it's not just a problem with Spalko - there's an overall lack of "danger" in the film - she's just the prime example. Spalko was the coyote to Indy's roadrunner. She wielded a sword, she threatened people, but nobody (including the characters) ever seemed to take it seriously. When the gun was cocked behind Marion's back, Indy's reaction was more like, "Man, this is inconvenient" than actual concern.
And why should he be concerned? He, like the other characters in Crystal Skull, knew they were in a movie as much as the audience did. The action scenes in Indy4 weren't any more ridiculous than in the previous movies, but people weren't smiling when they were driving off of cliffs in the original trilogy. I know that Indy and the good guys are going to survive every improbable situation which a normal person would have died through twenty five times - the goofy nature of the action is a fundamental part of the fun. I just have a problem with the characters being in on it. If Spielberg had made Temple of Doom yesterday, I can't help but wonder if the characters would have had a look on their faces that said, "Wheee this is fun!" when Indy cut the rope bridge.
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CasualJeff
New member
Udvarnoky said:
Dang, Udvarnoky. You nailed it. Overall, I liked KotCS. But you are absolutely right about everything in that post. The lack of danger really hurts the movie.
I don't mind the idea of Spalko being unthreatening by itself. I mean, she's still a cool character, and she's still sexy as anything. And honestly, it's pretty funny to see her "read' Indy and be met with skepticism. I prefer the ambiguity of her powers over actually having a 100% legit psychic villain.
But overall, the Russians were just guys in uniforms. Nothing really set them apart as being particularly threatening.
CasualJeff
New member
It's like they say, we're hardest on the ones we love. We wouldn't be harping so much on crappy monkey scenes or lack of danger or whatever if we didn't genuinely care about this franchise.