new feeling over KOTCS!!!

[Benraianajones]

I just noticed, when Indy says about knowledge being the gold, the "illumination" theme plays, it seems weird seeing Marion to the that piece of music and hearing in KOTCS in general! I know it played earlier in the movie, but not just after the finale.

 

[sandiegojones]

@sandiego
I think it's clear that Indy Fans think "Skull" is the worst of the Indy-Movies.

"Last Crusade" was (it's still) the end. I don't think that many people on this planet think that "Skull" is better than "Crusade". What do you think, sandiego?

What are you, RAIN MAN? You repeat the same sh!t in every thread!

 

[Sankara]

What are you, RAIN MAN?

NOOO.... I'M YOUR FATHER!!!"

 

[sandiegojones]

Sankara,

Look, I totally get that you are not pleased with KOTCS, but I don't see why you must debate it's merits with everyone. You are entitled to your opinion, you just shouldn't attack everyone else. Just because "most" prefer the other 3 films, it still means that "some" may like KOTCS better than TOD or LC. If they post such, there is no need for you to get on them about it.

For the record, I think ROTLA is best, but I actually find TOD and KOTCS to be more wacthable on a regular basis. They both have kind of fun and less serios vibe about them that makes them less taxing to watch repeatatively. I like LC probably more as a film than KOTCS, but I'll watch it the least of all four because it becomes a little boring since it's so much like ROTLA. If it weren't for Connery I don't think that movie would be nearly as good.

Also, as far as actual history is concerned I have always been interested in Mesoamerican culture and the Spanish Conquistaors far more than middle eastern and biblical history (since that's all we ever seem to learn about due to religion). I also have always liked 50's sci-fi movies (like Forbidden Planet) so KOTCS satisfies my personal interests best (even if it's all made up). I also think aliens are just as believable as "God" since I don't really believe in either. It's just a movie.

 

[Darth Vile]

I just noticed, when Indy says about knowledge being the gold, the "illumination" theme plays, it seems weird seeing Marion to the that piece of music and hearing in KOTCS in general! I know it played earlier in the movie, but not just after the finale.

Whilst it's technically part of the "Grail Theme", it's also the the cue best associated with Indiana and Henry Jones Senior. And in typical John Williams fashion, it's turned into something else i.e. the "Father/Son" cue... and that of course applies to Indy and Mutt too... I think that's why Williams uses it in that particular scene...

 

[Darth Vile]

@sandiego
I think it's clear that Indy Fans think "Skull" is the worst of the Indy-Movies.

"Last Crusade" was (it's still) the end. I don't think that many people on this planet think that "Skull" is better than "Crusade". What do you think, sandiego?

I don't think KOTCS is as good as TLC... but I think KOTCS is better than TOD. So I'm not sure you can make that sweeping generalisation.

 

[WeAreGoingToDie]

"Last Crusade" was (it's still) the end.

And yet KOTCS opens with the subtitle Nevada, 1957 and shows Indy alive and well.

Sankara, if you're in Germany at the moment (like your profile says you are) then it's 7:45pm. Get out and have some fun! Go to a bar, go to a club, something! Don't stay home and keep this up. We're at work wasting time, but you're at home wasting your own free time.

 

[Darth Vile]

And yet KOTCS opens with the subtitle Nevada, 1957 and shows Indy alive and well.

Sankara, if you're in Germany at the moment (like your profile says you are) then it's 7:45pm. Get out and have some fun! Go to a bar, go to a club, something! Don't stay home and keep this up. We're at work wasting time, but you're at home wasting your own free time.

Oi - I'm at home... but am just about to log off and get me some of that fun you mention...

 

[WeAreGoingToDie]

Oi - I'm at home... but am just about to log off and get me some of that fun you mention...

Haha! Good to hear. I think we've hit a point when Sankara is best left to being ignored. It's kind of sad, what he does.

 

[Benraianajones]

Whilst it's technically part of the "Grail Theme", it's also the the cue best associated with Indiana and Henry Jones Senior. And in typical John Williams fashion, it's turned into something else i.e. the "Father/Son" cue... and that of course applies to Indy and Mutt too... I think that's why Williams uses it in that particular scene...

Yeah, I know. I just never noticed it was used towards the end of the movie, I think it can still be used as an illumination theme though, as it plays when Mutt asks where the City of Gold was, as Indy explained.

 

[DarthGemni]

Just my 2 cents...I saw all 4 movies in the theater several times when they were first released...now all 4 on DVD...I like Crystal Skull much better on the small screen/TV..I didn't hate it in theaters, but to me it works more on a small screen..I don't have a blu-ray, and my TV is only 1080i, so maybe I'll change my mind when I'm eventually able to upgrade, but to me the effects don't look as fake, the gophers, monkeys, etc....and I enjoy Skull as I would any Saturday afternoon action/popcorn flick from the 50's. I can honestly say I will give it many viewings, and I didn't think I would when it was in the theater. But each time I watch it I like it more.
Not to say it's my favorite, but it definately has found a place for me on TV.

 

[Benraianajones]

Actually when the monkeys are attacking Irina in her jeep, I was thinking on the TV as I watched it, they don't really look bad at all. The only scene where the CGI (and not especially because it is bad) looks cringe-worthy for me is the tarzan bit when Mutt is actually swinging.

 

[sandiegojones]

Just about every special effect looks better on a smaller screen, regardless of the film.

 

[martinland]

Just about every special effect looks better on a smaller screen, regardless of the film.

Pardon me, I think that's not entirely true:

Especially films from the pre-digital era, that is all films older then 15 years, suffer from the two different color spaces and image storage systems we have to deal with: High contrast, highly detailed shadows and color space on film versus low contrast, low shadow details - or even worse, no blacks at all - and compressed color space on video (regardless of sd/hd).

Films and their FX that worked perfectly _on_ film, show "unintentional deficiencies" on the small screen never intented by the makers or experienced by the audience at the time.

My prime example is 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is technically a flawless film, especially when shown in its native 70mm resolution.

On video (be it VHS, DVD, or HD) you suddenly see artifacts of front projection which never were visible on any theatrical print!

The same holds true for optical compositing and blue screen work, which always tends to be more noticable because of the deficiencies of video color space and compression as I tried to desribe above.

Sad state of affairs, but when I can remember how glorious a film looked during projection I try to see a tube, flat screen or home theater projection as a "reminder" of what the theatrical (if it was technically a good one!) experience used to be. Or I catch a re-release or visit the film museum, which is always fascinating, because they usually offer prints and projection of exceptional quality. I remember seeing "Bride of Frankenstein" at the Vienna Film Museum and being knocked silly by the exceptional sharpness and detail of the print, which put some of my recent experiences with current releases to shame! The movie was made in 1935, no less!!!! (Of course it helps that it was shot on black and white stock, which is much more stable than color, except for three strip technicolor, which uses black and white film stock. That is why Robin Hood, Singing in the Rain and Oz still look better than films shot in the 70s ;-)

But you're right: Nowadays the effect might as well be reversed... ...strange world.

Just my two cents,
Martin

 

[kongisking]

For the record, I think ROTLA is best, but I actually find TOD and KOTCS to be more wacthable on a regular basis. They both have kind of fun and less serios vibe about them that makes them less taxing to watch repeatatively. I like LC probably more as a film than KOTCS, but I'll watch it the least of all four because it becomes a little boring since it's so much like ROTLA. If it weren't for Connery I don't think that movie would be nearly as good.

Also, as far as actual history is concerned I have always been interested in Mesoamerican culture and the Spanish Conquistaors far more than middle eastern and biblical history (since that's all we ever seem to learn about due to religion). I also have always liked 50's sci-fi movies (like Forbidden Planet) so KOTCS satisfies my personal interests best (even if it's all made up). I also think aliens are just as believable as "God" since I don't really believe in either. It's just a movie.

Jesus, do we share the same brain or something? I'm starting to get freaked out here. Everything you said in your post is 100% what I think! I realize that Raiders is the best, but Doom and Crusade and Crystal Skull have become more interesting to watch, purely for their own unique qualities.

I also do not believe in God, and I am personally a big fan of good ol' pulp adventure (this helped me love Mummy 3, though everyone else wants to burn every last can of film on the planet... ). Therefore, I had an absolute blast watching KOTCS, cause I just go honky-dory over crazy stuff like Ancient Astronauts, UFO's, Lost Civilizations, Giant Man-Eating Ants, Hypnotic Bones, etc. I eat this up like chocolate, and I am proud to say that I am utterly, irrevocably, head-over-heels in gleeful fan-love with Crystal Skull.

I'd prefer science fiction to religious mysticism in an Indiana Jones flick any day of the week, so there ya have it. I have no problem with magic and supernatural in the old flicks (I mean, in the context of the story the religious aspect actually serves a narrative purpose and makes logical sense), but I am just naturally a sci-fi nutball from birth, I guess. I also love such stuff as Egyptian Mythology and Mesoamerican-themed adventure tales. This is why I dearly adore both Mummy and National Treasure series.

In short, dude, you and me are like the Inter-Dimensional Beings: of seperate body, but of a similar/single mindframe. My hat is off to you, my smart and logical friend.

 

[Vendetta08]

^So Kong, is KOTCS your favorite Indy film since you like the sci-fi aspects best?

The more I watch Crystal Skull the more I like it. I was disappointed when I saw it in theaters but now I really enjoy it.

 

[Darth Vile]

^So Kong, is KOTCS your favorite Indy film since you like the sci-fi aspects best?

The more I watch Crystal Skull the more I like it. I was disappointed when I saw it in theaters but now I really enjoy it.

It's good to get someone willing to state that their peception changes with time...

 

[Niteshade007]

I honestly haven't bought the DVD and I don't know if I will. It just wasn't something that I see myself watching over and over again, although I did see it three times in theaters. Perhaps my opinion would change if I watched it on the small screen, but it'll be awhile before I find out.

 

[Darth Vile]

I honestly haven't bought the DVD and I don't know if I will. It just wasn't something that I see myself watching over and over again, although I did see it three times in theaters. Perhaps my opinion would change if I watched it on the small screen, but it'll be awhile before I find out.

These days there are very few movies I watch over and over... although I wouldn't let that stop me buying a movie on DVD that I enjoyed. When I was a kid, I endlessly watched the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies... but unfortunately, as an adult, life gets in the way.

So the bottom line is (which I think is where you are coming from)? if there is nothing of value you find in the movie, there is little point in buying the DVD.

 

[sandiegojones]

Jesus, do we share the same brain or something? I'm starting to get freaked out here. Everything you said in your post is 100% what I think! I realize that Raiders is the best, but Doom and Crusade and Crystal Skull have become more interesting to watch, purely for their own unique qualities.

I also do not believe in God, and I am personally a big fan of good ol' pulp adventure (this helped me love Mummy 3, though everyone else wants to burn every last can of film on the planet... ). Therefore, I had an absolute blast watching KOTCS, cause I just go honky-dory over crazy stuff like Ancient Astronauts, UFO's, Lost Civilizations, Giant Man-Eating Ants, Hypnotic Bones, etc. I eat this up like chocolate, and I am proud to say that I am utterly, irrevocably, head-over-heels in gleeful fan-love with Crystal Skull.

I'd prefer science fiction to religious mysticism in an Indiana Jones flick any day of the week, so there ya have it. I have no problem with magic and supernatural in the old flicks (I mean, in the context of the story the religious aspect actually serves a narrative purpose and makes logical sense), but I am just naturally a sci-fi nutball from birth, I guess. I also love such stuff as Egyptian Mythology and Mesoamerican-themed adventure tales. This is why I dearly adore both Mummy and National Treasure series.

In short, dude, you and me are like the Inter-Dimensional Beings: of seperate body, but of a similar/single mindframe. My hat is off to you, my smart and logical friend.

I'm not Jesus, but thank you.

I'm kind of a contradictory personality. I'm very conservative in some ways and very liberal in others. I do not believe in "God", but I'm not opposed to the idea of there being a "possibility" of a supreme being (which I guess classifies me as agnostic). For all I know the "supreme being" could be alien. So not being a true believer of either allows me to accept both as just good ol' fun and fantasy. I'm more against organized religion, though I see the value in it for some people (and for civilization in general since Christianity is the reason our society in the "western world" has thrived), and I never try to impose my views on other people like many athiests do.

I love history and I am usually more interested in the things you don't get taught in school which is why I've always been fascinated by the Aztecs, Mayans, Inca, etc. I also prefer old movies and music (I'm a big Elvis and Sinatra fan). I think older movies give a historical insight to the times (much like modern movies do of our times). What I like about KOTCS is that it doesn't just take place in 1957 because the title says so (like a lot of period movies), but because they captured the look, attitudes, propaganda, fear and pulp. You see everything from Howdy Doody to Forbidden Planet.

I kind of try to look at things for what they are and what they accomplished. That's why I like pulpy movies and said before that I think KOTCS and TOD are more watchable. As classic as Raiders is, it was never intended to be a "great" film. It just was. They also borrowed heavily from "Treasure of the Sierra Madre" and "Casablanca" as far as dialogue and characters are concerned. Those films are classics too. Some of the films the other Indy films were inspired by are not, which makes them less dramatic perhaps.

TOD and KOTCS are more in line with the original idea of Indy being in adventure serials and having a hightened sense of reality. I also have knowledge of the older movies with which those films were based so I think that allows me to appreciate them more. Like, in TOD for instance, how many people know that movies like "Gold Diggers of 1935 or 1936" were extremely popluar in the 1930's and was the basis for the opnening dance number? How many people have seen "Gunga Din"?

I think a lot of the haters around here are ignorant to the inspirations of the films. It doesn't mean their dislike of a film is wrong, but I bet they'd enjoy them more if they saw them.